I was answering your question/puzzled comment, not looking for an answer.
Ok, you are missing the point, I think, Length is not so much a problem until the width begins to "approach" the same measurment as the length. This increases the likely hood of the piece being able to spin/go in a different direction other than perfectly parallel to the fence.
How long have you been using a TS????
You are assuming that if all goes well/ "if it's well controlled and held firmly in place". Accidents typically happen when all does not go well. Work around a TS long enough and you will eventually realize that all does not go well 100% of the time. I'll be the first to say that I have used the fence for stock that is close to square and often when cutting cabinet panels I use the fence to cut to length panels where the fence setting is greater than the length of the cut. Is that safe???? "NO"!!!. I do however know what can happen if my hand slips, or if I don't keep the panel tightly planted against the fence, keep a large portion of my body weight on top of the panel, use stock that bows away from the fence, etc and I am prepared for the consequences should the panel bind.
No amount of preparation can prevent every accident. Taking chances increases the odds of having an accident.
You can take it for granted I make that assumption on every operation. Otherwise, I would do it some other way.
I'll agree with the platitude, but I don't see what's so magic about square. Is ripping 2" from a 10x10" square any better or worse?
A beginner, When you cut plywood you should only use the fence when the width against the fence is greater the the length being cut. Does this not depend on the actual measurements? ie
5" X 3" ( 3" on the fence cut 5" ) would be unsafe? 5' X 3' ( 3' on the fence cut 5') would be unsafe?In a word, no. Make a crosscut sled for this type of cut - you'll like it. It's stable, and easier to measure and control.
In general, any cut where the length of the stock is less than the length of the blade is asking for trouble.
shelly
No. A square that small might turn and that may result in a nasty kickback. You don't ever want a small piece of wood wedged between the blade and the fence.
No, you were being a smartass, and I responded by being a smartass too.
By your rule it's unsafe to rip a 20x20 piece of ply to 19x20, which is nonsense. Length has something to do with it. At some point it's long enough to not make much difference, until it's big enough that the fence not being long enough and being too awkward to maneuver takes over. At some point it's too short to not be safe regardless. I totally agree with the instinct of the OP to say this is in my gray area, stop and ask questions.
Never fails. Keep on doing what works for you. Don't assume I'm an idiot because I do it in a way outside your experience.
-Kevin
Nope.... :)
Somewhere over that I'd start thinking about it, but w/ that much bearing surface for the fence on ply I got's no problem w/ only an inch or so cutoff...just where I'd balk I'd have to have a piece in hand to see; I can't really say otomh what seems completely wrong.
2-3 ft, sure. Under 1, I'm not so sure...I'm sure a piece of roughly that size I'll have done quite a number times in 40 years but can't place a specific piece...Again, my $0.02 is "what floats yore bote...if you're uncomfortable, do some other way..." :)
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On Jan 20, 4:21=A0pm, snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net wrote: ...
No, that's taking a general rule and carrying it to an absurd conclusion.
The point isn't the L/W ratio, it's whether there's sufficient bearing surface on the fence to keep the piece from wanting to turn as it heads thru the blade. A rail stile cut to length is obvious.
Where the transition point is, is, imo, somewhat nebulous and dependent on operator comfort, material and even the saw/blade combination (a good saw w/ sharp, appropriate blade is far better than an underpowered one w/ a pos or dull blade that will want to bind/slug down instead of zipping right on thru. A 5x5 piece of 3" oak I'd treat differently from the subject ply as well...
My most-used "push stick" is an inverted "U" shaped slider that straddles the fence with the bottom shaped like the bottom of a shoe which sits on the work piece and a heel which pushes it along. On top is a wooden knob. It works as a hold down as well as a push stick. It is made from three pieces of 3/8 or 1/2 plywood. I don't remember where the idea came from. I'm sure I didn't think it up on my own.
In the scenario described I'd use my hand (4" is lots of clearance), but I'd hang a few fingers over the fence to make it harder for my hand to be pulled towards the blade.
Combined with the guard, I'd do this cut carefully but I wouldn't feel particularly unsafe.
Chris
Sounds reasonable. I wasn't necessarily replying to you, but the general concept.
Not my rule, just a common sence approach of how to gauge safe from unsafe. You do have to admit that 20 x 20 is more likely to cause a problem than say
20 x 80, but what we are talking about here is 5"x5" and 20 x 20 would be much safer than that. There is no black and white, all or none safe approach. There are always varing degrees of danger.Length has something to do with it. At some point it's
I am not assuming anything here, nor do I think you sound like an idiot. Where did you get that idea? You simply sound inexperienced whether you are or not. I do things quite often that are not necessarily considered safe but I deal with those situations as they come up. The OP sounds inexperienced and the best approach here is to warn against an unsafe procedure rather than give him a false sense of security and risk being injured. With time he will learn through close calls and hopefully only close calls that the unexpected can happen at any moment. Experience will help him recognize those times and how to better deal with the task.
Square or close to it is a good rule of thumb of observe that you are starting to deal with a shape that is less going to be less stable against the fence than material that is longer than it is wide.
I think you are on track if I read you correctly. Basically, think which orientation the stock is in and how the blade would have more leverage to pull the edge against the fence away from the fence. If that happens kick back is almost inevitable. The smaller the piece the greater the risk.
If in doubt, don't!
I would agree with this. The sled is the way to go and you will always have it. My read on what the OP said tells me he is using one of those push sticks with the little notch on the end, which is fine for this with the guard in place. But if it isn't then he should have a shoe type of push device.
Take this advice from somebody that did cut the end of his finger off, the day I did it the did not feel safe doing what I was doing, but could not find an intellectual reason that anything would go wrong, so I did it. Things happened so fast after that I still can't believe it. Doing what you described just brought back that same feeling, I even went out to the table saw (uplugged) and simulated it. There is no way I would put my hand into that situation. Make the sled, it will be one of the most used tools in your shop.
-Jim
Crosscutting with a miter gauge and a rip fence is about the most dangerous thing you can do.
snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (RM MS) wrote in news:16623-49776921-2604@storefull-
3312.bay.webtv.net:
Somewhere I picked up the tip to hook your outside fingers over the fence as you made a cut on a narrow piece. That way, your hand won't be able to get any closer to the blade than as far as your fingers can stretch.
Puckdropper
Until you slip.
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