Harbor Freight Stepping up Their Game?

Irrelevant to the context as to holding up to continuous use. I would put good money on *any* Festool power tool lasting longer than

Compared to it not holding up well. I have yet to have one need to be serviced yet or break down. Can't say that for my PC, Bosch, DeWalt tools.

And for you and your needs both brands are probably over kill. For me not so much.

I think knowledgeable with a bias against almost every thing he putters with, including other brand acquisitions.

The whole point to his videos is to find something wrong with what ever he disassembles. That is fine if you like to read something into that.

It does not matter what or how a tool is made, if it holds up and performs well, that is all that matters.

I use my tools and do not sit back wondering if they will hold up or not. Nor do I fear breaking them. I do not blindly assume Festool makes nothing but perfection. I will tell you right up front that The Festool parallel guides are a poor design and a PIA to use and they are quite expensive.

I proceeded with caution when I purchased my Dust Extractor and Domino,

How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news group. 90% of those projects were for customers.

Hey dude, where's your ranch? ;-)

Eggsactly!

On another note, I noticed that Festool has, well on April 2, will be coming out with a Granet NET sanding disk with intermediate pad.

...snip...

Ya know, you could do us (me!) a big favor and try a pack of the Diablo SandNet discs.

You've tried sand nets that you didn't like and you have found sanding disks that you do like, so you would be the perfect tester for the Diablo product.

I don't have enough experience to do a good comparison and might not even be able to put the choices through their paces correctly.

Let us know how you like them. ;-)

Sure, send them down. ;~)

I think the big issue with me is that I sand narrow face frames and the foam intermediate pad allows the net to compress over the face frame and that adds more stress to the net. IIRC I had no issue when sanding wide open flat spots but when the edge of the net went over an edge I had problems.

The paper sand paper has more reinforcement backing from the sander pad.

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

That's exactly why I want you to try the Diablo discs. I've done the *edges* of 3/4" stock, 2" face frames, etc. and never even came close to tearing a disc. I even rounded edges (purposely) on rough work, just to knock the sharp off.

You know you are not supposed to stand on the sander while using it right? Let the tool do the work. ;-)

If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy Festool for al most all my needs. And yes, under those conditions I would take them out t o a job site when needed. The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is th eir drills. Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent brushless models) for me to buy something else.

I have multiples of all the tools I use, and most are of different models f rom different manufacturers. Over the last 40 years of doing this as a con tractor for myself I look for value, durability, and repeatability in use. NO manufacturer makes all their tools in all their models to that standard . I have had DeWalt tools that are garbage. Had DeWalt tools that are grea t. Bosch has a pretty good track record with me and their oscillating tool , the old American made circulars saws were great. PC was a good brand, ne ver great, but they turned out some real crap and have now fallen off the r adar. Makita? Depends on what you are buying. The list goes on.

Festool, and probably Fein are the only commonly available tool that you ca n buy with complete confidence. For those that take care of their tools an d rely on them to make their living, I think in most cases Festool is unmat ched. Personally, I say all that bullshit about "contractor rated" or "ful l time use" and all the other marketing crap is just that. I watch some of the videos out there and always remember that 99% of the uploaders don't a ctually use their tools to make a living. They use the videos to supplemen t their income so it is important to say or do something that attracts atte ntion to their videos for the almighty "click".

I first saw the Festool track saw in use when visiting Swingman and Leon. Swing took out the saw and showed me the setup, cut a piece of plywood, and we talked about the strong points and weak points. For those of us that k now Swing (bless his heart), he is blunt and proud of his opinions. He was enormously impressed with the track saw, and after seeing it in use and its ease of setup, I was too. The cuts would rival or exceed most table saws, and the blade should (literally) last for years.

Leon's opinions concur, and again, having seen the saw, the setup and the f inal product I think it is a winner. If I needed a track saw, I would get that one.

So why don't I have all Festool? What is the place of Harbor Freight and o ther discount tools? Employees that don't take care of your tools as you d o, employees that don't know how to use tools correctly, the very real poss ibility of job site theft, and for almost all the needs on a construction s ite there is no need for the kind of quality work that their tools are capa ble of doing.

Comparing HF, or others to Festool has to be with a grain of salt. I only k now of two other contractors that use Festool out in the field (and one lov es those damn drills) and neither of them have ever had a failure. One is a cabinet installer that specialized in remodeling projects, so Festool's K apex miter saw and his dust collector is his weapon of choice. He is one of the very few craftsmen I trust, and he tells me that the Kapex is as acc urate now as it was 5 years ago when he bought it, used over countless jobs . So what is "job site rated" or the opinion it might not stand up to long term use worth? Festool seems to do just fine with full time professional use. He has small Festool track saw at his shop and since he hates the me ss of his table saw, uses it for all his "one off" cabinet builds, from car cass to shelving, not just breaking down sheet goods.

HF tools have their place. Good for rough work, some good for rough treatm ent, and the thought that you live with varying quality depending on the to ol. No real tears when you see them thrown in the bed of the truck for tra nsport, when one of your idiots is using your miter saw to cut job site tra sh into smaller chunks, and no real fear of lending them to a worker to fin ish up a job, and no undue screaming at your workers when they leave them o ut in the rain while they huddle under the eaves of a roof so THEY don't ge t wet. They are adequate and affordable. They have their place.

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid. One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for dedicated woodwork ers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool that fits a certai n need. I have never heard of a professional saying, "man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

Don't get this one...

Robert

I just might give it a try. It would be a favor to you. :-)

Bless His Heart!

Exactly!

The point of course is just because some pro somewhere uses a festering tool does not prove anything because pro's (more of them probably) also use HF tools. That doesn't mean HF tools are super durable any more than it proves festering tools are. AVE's review indicates festering tools are good, but has a number of surprising weaknesses, considering the cost.

He looks for weaknesses, that is the purpose of his reviews. He always points out exactly why he considers it a weakness and the potential for failure. This tends to piss off manufacturers that design in weaknesses and know exactly where they are, and about when they will fail. That is seems to piss you off is interesting.

Actually that is false. His review of Hilti drill and Kitchen Aid Mixer were both fine. In fact, his review of this festering saw was quite good, and he specifically pointed out what surprised him and what he thought would have been better. This seems to have royally got your panties in a bunch.

Which is determined by how it is made.

He said they are good tools for the home shop where a few items are made. You seem to make less than 12 things a year. This is intermittent use and exactly what AVe would expect.

Reading the reviews at homedepot.

One guy said they lasted less than a minute and showed pictures of 2 totally destroyed discs... Probably a festering tool employee.

Another guy said they did not appear to be made of sand... Probably a dude rancher...

Another said they were the best things ever made... probably not AVe...

I was going to try them, until I read these reviews, and remembered I have enough sanding discs to last me well past my life expectancy in the shop...

By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

That's exactly what I think as well...

You don't get that the fact that you know "pro's" (yourself even) that uses HF tools does not infer that HF tools are great tools designed to last any more that a pro using a festering tool mean they are balls to the wall best tools ever made...

Jack, if some pro some where was the only one using Featool, like you are painting the picture, Festool would not be in business.

Yes there are a lot of people that are not pro's that buy Festool these days, they can afford the top end products whether they need them or not. But Prior to about 12 years ago Festool, back some 50 or so years, relied mostly on the pro.

It just so happens that they found that there was a market for people that still wanted top quality tools and that also happened to be hobbyists.

I would say that I am some what of a pro, not full time pro, but I can easily afford Festool products. And I cannot afford to build as much as I do if I did not sell the vast majority of what I build. My material costs far exceeds my tools costs. I have been seriously wood working for 40 years and as a hobby since I was 10. I have a very good idea of what brand tools to buy. FWIW many of my tool purchases, since I bought my first Festool 11 years ago, have not been Festool. So you can't say that I am one of the ignorant that believes that every tool that a tool manufacturer makes is going to be top notch, that is just not a reality. BUT I have yet to have to replace any of my Festool tools which is not what I can say about any of the other brands that I have bought. For certain the sanders have out lived my PC sanders by a margin of 2 to 1, so far, and the Festool Sanders do more than my old PC sanders.

As far as the click bait guy goes you can believe every thing he says since you seem drawn to a person that uses words that you probably cannot find in a dictionary. If you go to his YouTube videos and Click on the Dirty Secrets of a $1000 saw, "you" and "I" have both been victims of Click Bait. The saw in question costs no where near $1K, Today years later after annual price increases, the saw sells for just over half that price. I have the more expensive version and still paid nowhere near $1K.

FWIW it is just as easy to correctly spell a tool name as make up a derogatory name. Grow up, maybe you won't show your hand before you say anything.

FWIW if it were not for the high risk of theft and a worker not respecting some one else's tool I believe we would see a lot more Festool out there in the trades.

Snip

I am in the camp that believes that no one makes the best of everything. But saying that and with several of my Festool brand tools being 10+ years old I agree that Festool probably comes closer to that utopia than the majority. The Festool warranty used to be a factor for me but no longer. I have not had to use their warranty so far. I certainly think the Ridgid line of tools have the best in the industry warranty and almost with with one of their drills 15 or so years ago. I ultimately went with Makita, the Makita just felt better in my hand and was much lighter weight that the Ridgid was back then.

Back to the Festool brand, Festool offers a 30 day money back guarantee, no questions asked. That certainly is not exclusive to Festool but is pretty much all the nudge I need to make the purchase. Because I have yet to replace any of my Festools I am not so much concerned about it holding up so much as to whether or not it will do what I expect. Specifically, the last Festool sander that I bought I was not certain that it was going to be helpful in eliminating the little circles you often get. I in particular was having this issue when sanding cross grain with RTS400 Festool sander. Yes sanding cross grain on face frames happens when the rails and stiles meet. I do not often stain but on this particular job the stain really brought out the circle issue. Anyway I told the Woodcraft guys that was what I wanted to eliminate with the new sander that Festool recently introduced. 30 minutes after using that sander I knew it was a keeper.

Personally, I say all that bullshit about "contractor rated" or "full time use" and all the other marketing crap is just that. I watch some of the videos out there and always remember that 99% of the uploaders don't actually use their tools to make a living. They use the videos to supplement their income so it is important to say or do something that attracts attention to their videos for the almighty "click".

Good to know since mine was an indulgence purchase. And I have to say I have used mine several times and it is great to know that the set up I showed you is exactly what I wanted, in actual use and not just on paper. The length stops are dead on accurate and very easy to flip out of the way when needing to square up the ends of short boards and then cut to length. And with long boards, with both wings up, I can simply square one end of a long board, slide it down to the opposite side wing stop and cut to length. Very well thought out.

So what is "job site rated" or the opinion it might not stand up to long term use worth? Festool seems to do just fine with full time professional use. He has small Festool track saw at his shop and since he hates the mess of his table saw, uses it for all his "one off" cabinet builds, from carcass to shelving, not just breaking down sheet goods.