Harbor Freight Stepping up Their Game?

[Leon]

Sounds very familiar. Assessments on aspects that do not matter are more in focus than intended performance.

[krw]

Ayup!

I can sleep at night (well, not so much lately but...)

I believe I was talking about the dummies who are paying for his fun by taking the bait.

He's fine. He understands his audience. I don't even blame Colbert. ;-)

[krw]

As always, you talk a lot but are completely ignorant. Seems to be your MO.

I insinuate nothing. The *FACT* is that he gets paid for clicks. That can't be denied. Well, I guess an idiot can deny anything.

[Jack]

Maroon!

[Jack]

Bull! I quoted exactly what you said, no word rearrangement. Feel free to explain what you meant when you replied, and I quote:

"And yet pros have be using the Festool track saws for decades.."

If it was not saying festering tools are good because pros use them, then what was it you were mumbling?

[Leon]

Jeez Jack

You said, He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse that a contractor would need.

I responded, "And yet pros have be using the Festool track saws for decades.."

So to put that /my comment into words you might understand. My comment was in contrast to the opinion that the saw is not designed for continuous use and abuse that a contractor would need. Because pros have been using Festool track saws for decades it is not a stretch of the imagination to realize that the saws have indeed been holding up for continuous use and abuse by contractors for decades.

Then some where you said, I take that as saying festools are good because pros use them

YOU misinterpreted my comment and added good because pros use them. I never said they are good because pros use them. I simply said pros have been using them for decades.

Do you think pros would be using, for decades, a saw brand that did not hold up to the use and abuse of a contractor?

YOU are the one that said you took the comment, the fact that contractors have been using the saws for decades, to mean they were good.

[Markem]

In response to tool reviewers statement that it is not a pro tool, so you keep on yur track.

[krw]

Dumbshit!

[Brewster]

That bearing caught my interest. He was correct in that helical gears produce thrust forces, but I believe the thrust is against the inboard bushing and not the bearing (I'll have to watch again to confirm).

The comment about the stator windings not being better protected and the pinched wire were eye openers.

-BR

[Jack]

OK, you win, you were not saying festering tools are good, but durable. Pros use them because they are durable. My mistake, didn't know you were going to split hairs...

So if "pro's" using a tool proves they are durable (not good but durable) then it follows that HF tools are durable because Pro's use them? Moreover, since more pro's use HF tools, and Bosch tools, and Ridgid tools than Festering tools, then all those must be more durable than festools. Is that what you were saying? Sounds lame whether you use the word good or durable.

I'd rather take Vhe's teardown where he gave Festering tools a rather good review, pointing out strengths and weaknesses, than the fact lots of pro's use HF tools so they must be durable. In fact, Vhe's review of a HF drill he says they should last about as long as their 90 day warranty, or something like that, so pro's using them doesn't cut it with him either.

Personally, I think most HF tools are just as good as any other tools, just their life expectancy is nil. I'd bet money I can drill a really good hole with a HF drill, just not a lot of them, so the tool is good, just not durable...

So if you want to drill a good hole, buy the cheapest tool you can find, probably HF. If you want good and durable to drill endless holes, buy the most expensive tool you can find, probably a Hilti. If you want in between, go for Bosch, Rigid Makita etc.

BTW, a cursory look at Vhe teardown of the silly Bosch toy chainsaw tool the comit posted seemed to be good as far as build goes. So there is yet another review of his that was not just trashing tools, like you inferred he does. In fact, the Hilti, the Kitchen Aid, the Festool and Bosch reviews were good, the HF was not good. 4 out of 5 ain't bad.

[Jack]

The tool reviewer never used the word "Pro" He said not designed for continuous use and abuse a contractor wood need, so you keep splitting hairs

[Markem]

You keep laying them out so nicely to be split.

[Leon]

I won nothing, this was not a contest. I was not splitting hairs, I was pretty up front.

I did not say durable either. I said something like, Some one said the saw would not hold up to contractors use. Festool has been selling the saw to pro's/contractors for 40 plus years. "You" probably have to think about that to get from A to B.

Jack you are making stuff up. It is not complicated. The saws have been used by pros for decades. A reasonable assumption is that the saws are likely to be holding up.

That is all I was commenting on. Try to stay on that and not read into my comments something you would like to argue about.

That does not make him or his reviews credible. Things he points out as deficiencies with the products he reviews are not always a concern in the long run. In the real world and with real world use the things he seems concerned about may not be an issue. I'm surprised he is not impressed or unimpressed by the color of a product.

You seem to be impressed by him and if that makes you happy, good for you.

Well I think you certainly seem to have an understanding of the words good and also durable.

You seem to be fascinated with holes! Buy what makes you happy when drilling your hole or holes.

Still I find his reviews irrelevant. Maybe you need a starting point for making a decision on what you would consider buying.

I'm using experience with the actual brands and tools that I work with.

[Jack]

You are splitting hairs.

So, you were not saying festering tools are "good" because some pro's use them. They are not durable because some pro's use them, but they "hold up" because some pro's use them. Well in the words of Steve Martin: EXCUSE ME!

I didn't make up that pro's have been using HF tools for years. I didn't make up that HF tools are not good, I mean durable. One does not necessarily follow the other, so you saying it has no meaning, even less meaning when you realize more pro's use HF tools than Festools, or that more pro's use Ridged, Bosch, Mikita and probably most any named tool more than Festool. Is it reasonable then to assume that all these tools, including HF tools are likely to be holding up?

When I read your arguments I have to read into them what the words say. When you argue about what I say, or claim I twist your words around, I sometimes enjoy arguing back, otherwise I would not respond to your arguments. How about you, why do you like to argue this crap?

Fascinated watching you claim there is some big difference between a tool being good, durable or holding up.

For your enlightenment, "durable" and "holding up" are exactly the same, and good is a reasonable description of a tool that is durable/ "holds up" for anyone not splitting hairs...

True, I certainly would never spend $700 on a shop vac w/o some investigation.

And your actual experience perfectly matches what AVe said in his festool review. I'm not surprised, his reviews seem rather complete.

[Jerry Osage]

I fail to understand all the animosity for Festool unless it boils down to: "I can't afford them therefore I will disparage them."

The best I can tell from reading here and talking to owner/users of Festool tools they have no complaints except perhaps for the initial cost.

If I was 40 years younger, and setting up a woodworking hobby shop my go-to brand would be Festool. And, 40 years later the tools might be antiquated but I'd be willing to bet that they would still be working - and, if not, Festool would be happy to repair them...

[-MIKE-]

BINGO!

[krw]

By Jove! I think he's got it!

I earned a long time back that when you buy the best, you only cry once.

I'm not 40 years younger (I couldn't afford them 40 years ago) but I bought mine because they had something to offer that I wanted more than the cash.

[Jerry Osage]

My father, and his brothers, were cabinet makers. Other relatives were carpenters/house builders. I was pretty well versed in cabinet making. However. perhaps because of the experience I wanted a job where I wore a suit and spent a lot of time behind a desk. Then go home and garden and make sawdust

I never wanted to take it beyond a hobby - however I wanted quality tools. Cry once and get on with it. "How do you justify all this stuff?" "I wanted it, we could afford it, and my wife said OK - that's all the justification I needed."

The only complaints I see or hear about Festool tools - from Festool owners - is the price. Never once have I heard: "It's a crappy tool, it does crappy work, repeatability sucks, and it is always breaking down."

What I hear is: "they are great tools and they are expensive, however, if you have the coin and can justify spending it, you'll be glad you did. And I agree.

[krw]

Exactly. Hobbies don't need justification beyond "because I want it". Of course, there are priorities. SWMBO gives me a ration about "green stuff" but really doesn't care. We were at Highland today (it's my lollypop after the doc does his thing - it's a mile or two from the hospital) and I was eyeing a $3K lathe, just to pump her up a bit. She just said, no problem, but reminded me that I couldn't lift more than

10lbs. There's always next time. ;-)

I did hear some grumbles on FOG about Kapex failures but that's about it.

Yep. I couldn't believe how well the Rotex worked. Every sander, including a Bosch, that I've bought has turned out to be a major PITA. Not the Festools. Leon sure hooked a fish here.

[Leon]

You hit the nail on the head.

Although there are valid reasons for not buying Festool other than not being able to afford them. Nailshooter has a very valid concern of the tools walking off from the job site or a worker treating it like it was an inexpensive and easy to replace tool.