Wing mirrors on cars

[The Natural Philosopher]

Oh dear.

When the blind lead the blind, they both shall drive into the ditch...

[Johnny B Good]

With the added provision that the qualified driver is not 'supervising whilst intoxicated'.

It's the normal practice in the UK for learner drivers to learn to drive in a 'manual' ("stick shift") car *and* to take the test in a manual car, even if they intend only to own/drive automatic transmission cars thereafter, since this qualifies them to drive both types with no further testing required to upgrade their driving license to a full driving licence should they later change their mind.

[NY]

Many many years ago I had an operation on my knee which required my left leg (the clutch-pedal leg) to be encased in a plaster cast from ankle to mid thigh for a couple of months. This meant I couldn't drive unless I heaved myself out of the seat, very carefully, to give me sufficient control as I let the clutch in (I tried it on our drive and thought "no way"). My sister was still learning to drive at that stage. I'm not sure whether or not I was supposed to supervise her when I couldn't have driven. I reconciled it by thinking that I was still able to direct her and tell her "don't do that - it's not safe" etc. After all, there is no requirement for a supervising driver to be able to intervene physically (eg by pressing the clutch and brake), even though many driving school cars do have dual controls that allow this. I wouldn't have let her drive if she hadn't been "test-standard but not yet taken her test", as opposed to being a kangarooing, stalling and panicking novice - but then I'm not sure I'd want to supervise someone in that state even if I was able to take over - let the driving instructor have the "pleasure" of getting the person up to a reasonable state of competence -)

[boltar]

Oddly though it doesn't apply to trucks. I passed my class 2 HGV (class C) in a manual, but I did the class 1 (C+E) in an auto but I can still drive a class 1 HGV with a manual box. Probably the same for buses. Given a choice I'd take the auto any day, range shifting boxes are hideous devices.

NB: Please don't set the follow-up just to one group in a crosspost.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Wow, is it a Lada or something? A 2011 car with manual mirrors?!? Do you have to reach out and wipe the windscreen with a cloth when it rains too?

So there are a few sensible places left in the world. The UK is a nanny state.

[Johnny B Good]

I'm using Pan and it popped up the following message:

QUOTE/

There were problems with this post.

Warning: Crossposting without setting Followup-To header. Warning: The message is mostly quoted text.

GO BACK (or) CONTINUE ANYWAY option buttons

ENDQUOTE/

Which, after hitting the GO BACK button, left me to click the "More Headers" tab and take my best guess as to what to do with it. Evidently, I made the wrong choice. Should I have just copied and pasted the whole list of news groups (uk.rec.driving,uk.d-i-y,alt.home.repair), or does hitting the CONTINUE ANYWAY button do that for me?

PS I'm about to find out since that message box has popped up again and I'm going to choose the second option *this* time round. :-)

[boltar]

You need a new newsreader. It shouldn't require any follow up groups to be set, it should just use the ones in the "Newsgroups:" field. Probably written by someone who never bothered to read the RFCs.

[Johnny B Good]

Since the requirement for practice driving in a normal car is that the learner be 'under *supervision* by a qualified driver', I'd say your temporary disability to drive a manual transmission car would not be classed as disqualifying you from this role, given the circumstance that you were no further impeded from manually intervening in the control of the vehicle in an emergency than a fully able bodied 'qualified driver' would be (grabbing the steering wheel or the emergency/handbrake or knocking the gear shift/selector into neutral/park).

Obviously, if you were prepared to teach a complete novice to drive 'from scratch' (ideally after explaining the need for a clutch and gearbox in an ICE driven vehicle and the principles of their usage), you'd need to be fully abled in order to demonstrate each step of the process before allowing them behind the wheel in a safe, low risk environment for them to practice the techniques that you've demonstrated before allowing them to refine their driving skills on the open road.

Once the 'learner' has reached this level of competence, your role as 'the qualified driver' becomes essentially one of supervision and guidance. The only question mark over the legality of such supervision in your case arises out of the need for you to take over the driving should an incident/accident unnerve the learner driver. If the car in question had an automatic transmission, there wouldn't be such a problem.

Even so, this still seems a bit of a grey area in the regulations since if the car is deemed 'drivable' after a minor accident, it's usually sufficient to simply move it to a safe parking place and arrange for another driver to return the vehicle back home or to your usual repair shop of choice. If I was in your position, I'd take great care to avoid any routes that involve railway crossings. :-)

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Yes, he did write nothing. Do you know what the word nothing means?

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Why would anyone want to add such a stupid rule to disallow BETTER mirrors?

[James Wilkinson Sword]

I can see a little of the edge of the car aswell, for context like you said. I've never known anyone say there was a set way to adjust mirrors, it's personal preference isn't it?

[James Wilkinson Sword]

You get sued for being a shit driver. What has the mirror to do with it?

[James Wilkinson Sword]

I saw it on a 1995 GM in the UK. Astra I think, wasn't mine.

[Bob Eager]

Rubbish. It's a warning. Pan does that because (unlike most newsreaders) it adheres fully to the GNKSA specification.

[rbowman]

That's sensible. I hate to admit it but the tiered motorcycle licensing is a good idea too. The US has a number of fatalities where someone with little or no experience buys a liter sport bike and makes it about 5 miles before crashing.

I rode a Yamaha Seca 400cc for a while. The bike was designed for the European beginner tier and was very rare in the US because it was 'too small'. It worked for me.

[rbowman]

I drove a truck and had the full complement of endorsements, triple trailers, tankers, hazardous materials, and so forth. The basic commercial license required a road test but all the endorsements were written tests. In other words when I picked up my first set of double trailers it was on-the-job training in Los Angeles traffic.

However when I got a job driving a school bus I had to show up with a bus for another road test, plus the written test.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Americans don't have those, your racist attitude stinks :-)

[Bob Eager]

One of my wife's ex students flew into Heathrow Airport and went to hire a car. They refused to hire him anything bigger than 1.4 litre (I think), because he was "too young" (under 25) and therefore couldn't be trusted to drive anything more powerful.

They didn't care when he told them he'd just flown an A380 in from Hong Kong.

[rbowman]

Toyota Yaris

It has functional wipers although they are different lengths for the passenger and drivers side which is a pain in the ass. The rear one is also a different length.

[NY]

I'm always surprised that a car licence allows you to tow a caravan or trailer (*) without having any training or testing to prove that you know how to do so safely - especially how to reverse it. I wouldn't think of towing a trailer until I'd had a lot of training and even more practice at reversing. When we got a caravan when I was young, my dad had to work it out by trial and error, practicing on waste ground where it didn't matter if he didn't reverse in a straight line until he'd mastered the technique.

Thinking of driving manuals when you've only ever driven automatics, here's a story that a friend told me. His dad worked at an airport, for a car-hire company. One day "a brash, over-confident American" (**) turned up to hire a car, Hearing his accent, my mate's dad offered him an automatic, on the assumption that it was less likely that an American would be able to drive a manual than if it had been a European. The punter said he was OK driving a manual. He was shown to a car, which was parked alongside the kerb, with several other cars parked in front and behind it. He got in, revved the engine (he knew that you needed to apply enough throttle to prevent a manual stalling when you let the clutch in) and the car surged forward as he let the clutch in very smartly. It cannoned into the back of the car ahead of him, which in turn rear-ended the car in front of *it*. Before my mate's dad could do anything, the guy put the car into reverse to try and extricate himself from the mess, and he did the same thing to the two cars behind him. Within the space of about ten seconds this guy had written-off five brand new hire cars :-( I presume he forfeited his Collision Damage Waiver, only a minute or so after he'd signed for it :-)

(*) For the benefit of Americans in the thread, in the UK, unlike the USA, the word "trailer" is only used for a low-sided vehicle for transporting goods, and not also a full-height, longer vehicle for living in while you are on holiday - the latter is a "caravan".

(**) The fact that he qualified it with those adjectives implies that he realised that not *all* Americans are like this, despite the grossly-unfair stereotypes. :-)