Some good news and some bad news

Ah but the act of calling supporters of such art "brainless lemmings" is all part of the overall artistic process. The Fauvist movement at the beginning of the 20th Century got its name because they were called wild beasts by people who didn't like their art.

Just as those who like Damien Hirst's work are fully entitled to praise and buy it (and enjoy it) others have the right to pour (artistic) scorn on them for doing so. The discussion of art by "those who don't know much about art" as you put it is essential in a civilized society (or even a ng). There can be no "right" or "wrong" in such a subjective area, only discussion about right and wrong.

The issue of art as an investment is relatively modern and, some may say, injurious to art but the buying and selling of art occurs between consenting adults and it's their money.

Bob Mannix

Get Damien Hearst in. Barrel of formaldehyde, couple of fishtanks, chainsaw, job-done.

"sPoNiX" wrote | Why is it that when damien hirst pickles a dead rabbit it is | "Art" worth million, but if I were to do exactly the same | it'd simply be a "pickled rabbit" worth nothing?

The only way it would be worth nothing is if Ebay don't allow pickled rabbits. If Ebay allow pickled rabbits then somebody will buy it.

Owain

But like sPoNiX said, if I was to "compose" a piece of silent music, nobody would take any notice. John Cage was well known for writing avant garde music from the early 40's, at least 10 years before he wrote 4'33". I haven't had the chance to design any avant garde buildings, but I have been trying to dabble with weird sounds, but nobody has shown any interest. That's because my work is not fashionable.

I didn't call anyone a brainless lemming. I asked whether you felt that people who follow fashion for the sake of it, like the King's courtiers who praised him for going naked, could be described as such. As far as knowledge of art is concerned I could be called brainless, but I'm certainly not a lemming.

Maybe, but I don't know you well so I have no preconceptions about your taste in art. Mary, I am not decrying your taste or anyone else's - I merely pointed out that fashions and trends play a large part in what is classed as "good" and "bad" art, and free thinkers form their own opinions.

Did you see Dairmuid the gardener on TV last night, building his display for Chelsea? He had some really weird ideas I thought, but some aspects of it were clever, and I would have praised him for those. What I didn't like was the people who gushed with fake praise about the whole thing, not because they really liked it, but because that's what they thought would enhance their own personalities. They are the modern King's courtiers in my view, as are many avant garde art and music fanciers.

Peter

In message , Mary Fisher writes

Yes, but I have to ration you to two /post

In message , Peter Taylor writes

I was going to mention that, but forgot his name and was too lazy to google it. Thanks, you've put me out of my misery.

Of course, the question which has never been answered is, what key is it in?

Do you realise that at it's first performance, several sad people burst into tears because they got so emotional ?

In message , Mary Fisher writes

A) the people who can get away with such things tend to be already established, if you or I did it, nobody would take any notice

If I went along and said look at this fantastic new composition of mine

- it's four and a half minutes silence, do you really think I'd be taken seriously?

B) why would I do something which I fail to see any artistic merit in ?

This reminds me of something I read a few years back. Apparently CS owned a work of modern 'art' consisting of a head sculpted from frozen blood (the artist's own IIRC).

CS's woman (Nigella Lawson [1]) had the builders in to extend the house or some such - electrical work was included in the plan so guess what happened to the freezer and the blood....

Ed Sirett wrote

Did he keep a cool head when he discovered it?

geoff wrote

Now come on Geoff, shape up! It's in B# of course! I heard that every time he played it, John Cage insisted the piano was detuned to A=435.

You can watch a complete performance of it on line if you have Real Player. It's at

I reckon they are all practical jokers really. I can just see John Cage or Tracey Emin getting home after a long day at the silent piano or at the Tate, and laughing their socks off at all the idiots who've been taken in.

Peter

In message , Peter Taylor writes

Nah, she probably gave him some though

In message , Peter Taylor writes

So you're saying it's in B#flat then ...

I bet my parents wish I had learned that piece when I was young

Err .. I'll pass on that one, despite the fact that I accidentally missed it on the radio a couple of months ago

A bit like the current egg card adverts

"Andy Hall" wrote | geoff wrote: | >>Besides, the elephant didn't apply for an arts council grant. | >Even if they had, it would have been truncated | tusk, tusk.....

Howdah people come up with these puns ...

Owain

Black pudding?

In message , Owain writes

Don't you think you should hide now ?

geoff wrote

Sort of - depends on the temperature and the coefficient of expansion of the piano strings - but there or thereabouts.

I tried to learn it but it was too hard. I was only 6 and the piano lid was too heavy. Besides, I could tell the time at that age.

Oh NO!! Did you miss it? That was the best performance I never heard! I've got it on tape somewhere if you'd like to not hear it.

Never watch adverts, but I expect you're right!

OK, it's time for me to go to "My Bed" and think of "All the people I ever slept with". On second thoughts no, the thought of Tracey Emin puts you off don't it? G'night. :o)

Peter

In message , Peter Taylor writes

Yeah, a bit of a disaster that

However, I have some unused C90s somewhere, all is not lost

You might have my wife to answer to later

Oh go on, force yourself, I can count to three if pushed ...

Mary off to Scotland, talk about me while I'm gone.

I'll throw in my 2c worth.

Most great artists that we revere from the past were not recognised in theior lifetimes.

Mosat great art is considered great because it shows two things togther

- a design that speaks to all of us, and a degree of craftsmanship hat allows the message to become clear.

I would maintain that art that speaks only to a minority, or indeed only to a single person - the artist himself - and is not exexcuted with any degree of craftmanship, will not become great - and indeed anyone who finds they have a paid a fortune for a shed full of it, might well be tempted to torch it in a falling mareket.