Skimmed Milk

[RJH]

FWIW, I got some oat milk on recommendation. Tastes to me like full fat cow's milk in tea. (Of no use to the OP though - about as much fat as full fat cow's)

[NY]

As a Yorkshireman (I was born in Leeds), very definitely Hare-wood. "Har-wood" is an affectation, which is liable to provoke contempt from your average Yorkshireman. I've heard people talk about "Har-wood House [or Lord Har-wood] in the village of Hare-wood". Likewise during Princess Diana's funeral procession, when her coffin reached its final resting place, one news channel scrupulously referred to "Orl-trop" House in the village of "Ol-thorp" (Althorp). "Orl-trop" is an even more weird pronunciation than "Har-wood" because it even reverses the order of the "o" and "r": t[h]rop rather than thorp.

[NY]

Kent seems to have more than its fair share of counter-intuitive pronunciations:

- any name ending -ly is pronounced "lie" rather than "li" (eg Ardingly)

- Wrotham is "Root-um" not "Roth-um"

- Torttiscliffe is "Troseley" (apparently the latter spelling is starting to be adopted, on the basis that you adapt the spelling to match the perverse pronunciation

If the locals are precious about the pronunciation of their place names, it's a shame that more names don't have their spelling modified to match, as happened with Brighthelmstone which became Brighton, and Wyradisbury which became Wraysbury. Bristol used to be Bristowe; the modern spelling embodies the local habit of adding an "L" sound to the end of a word that ends in a vowel sound (window -> windowl, area -> areal, etc).

[Brian Reay]

Interesting, I?ve not heard of Oat milk.

We had a friend stay who needed Soya milk, it was OK but I?d not choose to use it. Someone I know mentioned Almond milk - I think someone in their family has an allergy and drinks it- but I?ve not tried it.

Fortunately, while there are things I tend to avoid, I don?t have any allergies- at least none I?ve discovered.

[RJH]

It's quite new I think - at least mainstream. I need to qualify the fat comments above - I've bought 2, one an expensive (£1.50L) Oatly 'barista' (or summit). That's loaded with extras - including vegetable oil. And tastes OK. I've also got some Aldi (or maybe Lidl, which is just oats and milk, about half the price, but yet to taste it. A third of the fat - 1g vs 3g/100ml.

I don't get on with soya - and it really doesn't work in hot drinks IMHO.

Too sweet for me - and adds a sweet almond taste to everything.

Don't think I do. But I don't like UHT milk, and I bought this for the lockdown (quite a while back actually, pre-emptive). Also an ex GF is vegan, so I was quite churched up in it all. In my quieter moments animal welfare and environment issues too. So if this achieves breaking the milk habit, all for the good :-)

[Bev]

Yup

On one occasion I had to ring the estate manager's office and they also made that difference during the conversation.

[Max Demian]

There's Tunbridge Wells and Tonbridge: I think they are both pronounced "Tunbridge".

[The Other John]

Some people, espcially Estuary English speakers, say 'Tumbridge'!

[T i m]

<snip>

Does one pronounce the new-fangled European tonne the same as our good old ton, OOI?

Cheers, T i m

[Brian Reay]

Probably now, yes.

When it wasn?t common, some people used to say Tonnie, although I doubt it was anything official.

I?ve not heard it years.

BTW. it isn?t really new fangled any more. ;-)

[Brian Reay]

Perhaps, when the current ?problem? settles down, I?ll try some- if I don?t like it wasting it wouldn?t be right at the moment- someone else should have it.

We only get it for visitors, although I think Senior Management is happy to drink it even likes it.

Do vegans not drink milk? It doesn?t harm the animal- in fact dairy cows / goats are generally very well cared for. That helps ensure good yields and quality milk. Some one I knew had a Dexter, a popular cow with smallholders. It lived like a princess. Milked by hand. The milk was delicious and I don?t normally like full fat milk.

I only started drinking UHT as our milkman changed and the new one came late - after we?d both left for work. Initially we got him to deliver UHT so it didn?t go off then, having got used to it. That must have been mid

80s. I?ve drunk it ever since. Normal milk generally tastes unpleasant now.

[Bob Eager]

They are indeed. I'm pretty good on Kent and Sussex names.

[T i m]

<snip>

No.

It does. Cows are very inelegant and nurturing animals, caring for their young for quite some time and suffer mentally and emotionally when their young are taken away (as are the young) so we can drink the growth fluid of a completely different species?

By being injected with steroids and bred to generate unnatural quantities of milk you mean?

They should only be producing enough milk to wean their own young.

And that's how 'man' did it before we turned cows into a factory machine. And 'man' has had to adapt it's digestive system to be able to process the growth fluid of another species over time. Many cultures still haven't.

Take a trip round a dairy (as we did the other day) and hear the calves calling for their mothers and see if it still tastes as nice?

That's also when we went from delivered to getting it ourselves in plastic bottles. In the summer, if the milk was still there it was nearly yogurt. ;-(

I still like the 'taste of cows milk, as does our long term Vegi, now Vegan daughter (that you have met), but she get's terrible stomach cramps if she drinks cows milk in any quantity (more than just a drop in a tea of coffee).

So she introduced us to Oat milk because of how it didn't react in hot drinks but also happily has Soya on cereal.

The thing is, if you discount milk because of it's negative aspects, you no longer try to compare it with alternatives but learn to appreciate said alternatives as being equally good.

Like, it's not nice eating cereal without something like 'a milk like liquid' (so not orange juice or water) and oat / soya / almond are those alternatives.

White label baked beans don't taste the same ... 'as good' as Heinz but then they also contain less salt and sugar than Heinz? Once you have eaten the basics beans a few times, they become the 'norm'.

It's similar (for us) with meat. Most of us have 'liked' meat, we have never really eaten loads of it but since we have been advised away from processed meat and even trying to reduce out intake (for health reasons), we have found we can happily go without eating any and not any. Tonight for example I made (assembled) the Mrs and I a curry using Quorn chunks, onions, mushrooms, some mixed veg and some 'Basics' curry sauce and it was perfect fine. We both enjoyed a meal and no animals had to be killed in the process.

Again, I question how many people would go vegi (at least) if they had to actually pull the trigger on a cow, sheep, pig or goat before they earned the right to buy meat. And it's if funny how the word 'lamb' doesn't sound quite so brutal as 'baby sheep'?

And I'm not blaming the farmers here, all they have done (in many cases) is upscaled what they have been doing in crofts and small holdings for years, supply and demand, but that's part of the problem (over supply has meant the margins are often very small).

If you have Netflix, and given we all have a bit of spare time now, I would be interested in what others have to say about the documentary 'Cowspiracy'. It's not gory (you don't see anything being killed) but it does give what could be (assuming it's all true etc) a good insight into Corporate beef cattle / dairy industry and it's cost to all living things.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Ok.

I thought I had heard it pronounced like that and know I have used it myself, I just wasn't sure of how it should be.

Nor me. Although I don't hear people talking about tonnes very much in general, maybe only talking of a 'one tonne bag'.

I know but I was playing on the 'old man', anti EU and their 'new funny / non-British ways'. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Andrew]

bashing big dents into the side of the 10 gallon churns was another favourite trick to make less than 10 gallons appear to be 'up to the mark' :-)

[Max Demian]

If we didn't farm cows for milk, they would never have been born. Which is better, to be born, live a well looked after life for a few years and die, or never to have existed in the first place? (I'm talking about you as well as the cows.)

[Chris Hogg]

If you never existed in the first place, how would you know what 'existing' was like in order to wish one way or the other?

[Richard]

Yeah. It's a pretty stupid argument. If cows weren't "farmed for milk" they'd be completely different beasts altogether. They don't just die, they are slaughtered. And, no, I'm not a vegan. One could extend the argument to less well off humans in the third world. And, no, I'm not left wing either.

[T i m]

Quite.

Indeed.

Certainly the ones used as milk production machines are and 15 years sooner than they might had they lived naturally (typically 20 years).

There is still hope ... and that's while you have the choice. ;-)

Quite.

Following on from the surprising lack of understanding of what a Vegan did or didn't consume, it reminded me of this clip:

So if that's how most people might react to such a situation (when the human consumption of human produced lactate could at least be considered 'normal'), imagine how much convincing you would need with an alien to get them to drink the lactate of a completely different species?

I wonder how many here in the UK have tried the milk of their pregnant cat or dog and if not, why not?

Cheers, T i m

[NY]

If we all suddenly became vegan, we'd have no need for cows, either for their meat or their milk. Using their skin for leather would almost certainly be verboten as well.

What effect would this have on cows? Well no-one would breed from them any more, and no herds have a bull amongst them, except those kept in the wild like Chillingham in Northumberland. So cows would die out - either through old age or else by killing them. The latter may well happen because their grazing land may be needed for additional crop-growing.

In the case of sheep, they may well be allowed to survive for their wool, because a) shearing for wool can be done without harming the animal and can be done each year, b) they can live on rougher ground that is not needed for crops.

What is vegans' view on using wool, given that shearing doesn't harm the animal and wool is used externally rather than ingested as is the case for milk?