OT: tires

OK - so the tire pressure warning light was in fact telling us something after all. After two months of it going on and off, and both front tires looking, hmmm, not quite OK, so I'll put some air in both, SWMBO just called as nearside front is flat as a pancake. GreenFlag will attend.
Meanwhile, what actual repairs are tire places allowed to do on tires these days? If it's just a hole, can they patch that from the inside? Or is in obligatory new tire only. We've done nearly 30k miles on it so far.
Also: can anyone recommend an accurate tire pressure gauge? I've got one of those ballpoint pen sized ones which I used the other day when adding air. The airpump at Tesco was telling me the front tires were at 35 PSI (33 was needed) but my gauge was telling me they were both only at 30.
And is it worth having a foot pump or do they take an hour of pumping to get up to pressure?
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I have a foot pump. but it sits on the shelf since I bought a 12v one in Halfords.
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from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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Ah, that sounds like a better option.
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against producers in poor countries."
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This lark of having no spare or a crap spare in my view is false economy. Brian
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On 20/09/2019 09:29, Brian Gaff wrote:

There is a problem though with modern vehicles in that the wide tyres have a spin handedness so you would need to carry a spare for each side of the vehicle. A small spare good for 50mph is a fair compromise. Run flats have the distinct advantage that a blowout at speed is pretty much a non-event and you don't need a spare at all = more luggage space. The disadvantage is their ludicrously high price.
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My car has different tyre sizes front and back. ;-)
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*It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 20/09/2019 11:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Cut-and-shut dealer build?
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On 20/09/2019 12:48, alan_m wrote:

Asymmetric layout to enhance driver feel.
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On 20/09/2019 16:32, mm0fmf wrote:

Our Smart Car has different tyres front and rear. A bit of a nuisance really. I carry a 'space saver' spare which is safe for both- I don't trust the gunk stuff which is supplied these days in lieu of a spare.
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Whyever not?
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Even the old plugs (banned in the UK years ago) could blow out of the hole. Why would anyone believe a bit of gunge would be any better?
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wrote:

Because it isnt a solid plug that can blow out. Even if a little of it does squeeze out, there is more of the liquid stuff in the tire to fill the hole again.
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On 21/09/2019 07:42, Brian Reay wrote:

You do know he is a troll and will argue with you whatever you say? A bit like rod but dumber.
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On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 08:41:48 +0100, "dennis@home"

But in this case there is truth in what he says, all be it with massive caveats to the type of 'gunge' we are talking about.
I have experience of several types, from stuff that comes in a pressurised container and is designed to provide an *emergency* solution to allow you to limp home (containing some sort of latex or vinyl etc), to the heavier complex solutions that are designed to be installed in the tyre and be ready to plug any hole in the tread area, up to a specific size on a permanent basis.
As supplied by Continental tyres:
https://www.continental-tires.com/car/tires/continental-tire-technologies/contiseal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v
cvaj5d0UM
Some people understand pictures / videos better than words. ;-)
There is nothing stopping you then repairing the tyre using a traditional / approved process later on.
I have also experimented some 'ripoff' pre-treatment type 'gunge' for use on road vehicles and seen it fail miserably (it just didn't seal the leak even when over-dosed) so you really have to know the difference between 'the good stuff' and everything else.
I'm not suggesting the use of such as the replacement for a spare wheel (although I have on motorcycles because unlike my old Lambretta SX150 scooter, most motorbikes don't carry a spare wheel), but that in most straightforward cases (a small nail / screw) you wouldn't need to use your / a spare wheel. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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On 22/09/2019 10:35, T i m wrote:

Not stopping you, but requiring you to.
Even their data sheet includes "Upon discovering a puncture, a tyre specialist must promptly check the tyre."
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On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 11:13:56 +0100, "dennis@home"

Of course, they have to cover themselves and protect themselves from idiots who knowingly drive over something nasty that damages the tyre and not stopping to check just how much damage was caused (with or without any leak prevention).
I 'get' that you are simply quoting the rules but can you see how such a repair solution does have merits ITRW?
I don't need it sold or proved to me because I have seen and experienced it working many times ITRW and can apply a knowledgeable RW understanding of the situation to what I do.
Like I said, the rules aren't always up-to-date with technology, aren't the best or the safest for us, often just a 'catch all' to protect against the lowest common denominator (as with 'approved' motorcycle helmets).
I would much rather not have a puncture that causes a tyre to be run soft, at speed, potentially for a long time (motorways trip) repaired using an 'approved method' because of all the invisible damage that may have been done to the tyre carcass.
If *every* tyre that gets a puncture then get's thrown away then that makes some sense, but if repairs are allowed but only in a restricted range just because the current repair process doesn't work properly on (say) the shoulder, that doesn't. What also doesn't is that we ignore process that can and do work under such circumstances (and for mechanically / scientifically explainable and perfectly safe reasons).
On a more abstract note, how many more people will die because of the extra pollution created by re-processing tyres that are written off but actually perfectly useable (because of a pinhole puncture on the shoulder for example)?
Cheers, T i m
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On 22/09/2019 11:45, T i m wrote:

It may have merits as a *temporary* repair it is not a proper repair.

Your individual experience is the problem, it means you don't see the whole picture.
Epidemiology wouldn't get far if everyone based their thinking on personal experience.

You can't, an approved repair requires the internal inspection.
The gunk also requires the internal inspection and not just being left as a repair. You don't even know what is in the tyre that has been sealed. It could be a 10mm nail or a piece of metal 300 mm long. One would be safe(ish), the other could be doing more damage as you drive.

The repair process is the result of many years of practical use. They don't allow other methods because they have proven to be unsafe.

None if its done properly.
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On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:07:55 +0100, "dennis@home"

Why isn't it (ITRW)? Why isn't it in fact 'better' than what you consider a 'proper repair'?

It's not just my experience though, it's the combined experience of everyone who has used or evaluated the product and over many many years. You are basically arguing against something you don't really understand and so can't appreciate.

See above. Multiple experiences and science, not a just a blinkered adhesion to some potentially out-of-date rules (again, ITRW etc).

An inspection done by a 'tyre fitter' and without the ability to examine the internal construction of the tyre. Looking 'inside' shows little.

Yes, that's the 'official' recommendation but again, ITRW, anything it can seal is unlikely to present any more of a risk than your 'approved' repair.

So?

Ok, whilst 'possible', highly unlikely (again, because you don't fully understand how it works).
With an untreated tyre, anything that penetrates as far as the inside of the tyre to create a 'puncture', could well just sit there, especially if it doesn't actually cause a significant leak going round and round, potentially causing further damage as it does.
With a treated tyre that receives a puncture, any leak will allow sealant to pass down the side of the object, lubricating it and allowing it to come out easier.
If no puncture is caused, the object will stay there in both cases (so you are no worse off with the sealant).

Or not? If your 300mm long length of metal actually managed to make it inside the tyre, with an untreated tyre it would cause a puncture (possibly with very rapid deflation) and the object would likely sit inside the tread area, held there with centripetal force until you stop, where it will tumble about.
With a treated tyre you may not experience any deflation, or if the hole is too big to seal (or in the sidewall etc) the sealant would typically slow the deflation down, typically buying you time to get to a safe place. Also, the object is likely to remain 'stuck' inside the tyre and if not, lubricated so less chance of doing any further damage. It is likely to show an imbalance to alert you to there being a bigger issue.

And simple enough to do with little training or equipment.

More that there are no specific standards and therefore loads of cr*p on the market.

And how is that then?
Cheers, T i m
p.s. I'm not trying to suggest that any (good) gunk type solution is 100% perfect, just that in 'most cases' it wouldn't present any greater risk than if it wasn't there and would in many, reduce the risks from other factors (hard shoulder in the dark and rain).
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On 22/09/2019 15:08, T i m wrote:

You don't know what damage has been done so that is enough for it to not be a proper repair.
I don't need anything else to show it isn't a proper repair.
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On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 15:54:41 +0100, "dennis@home"

Same applies to anything that goes into the tyre but doesn't cause any loss of pressure?

So you are happy to take the risk (ignoring the regs etc) on all the other instances where there would be no question that the sealant had done it's job and saved the day for the one obscure instance where damage was done (rather than just causing an air-leak etc) and the sealant was *also* able to completely block the leak?
Are you happy for your wife or child to be changing a wheel at the side of a busy road or in the middle of nowhere because of a hole made by a panel pin in the middle of the tread?
https://www.punctureseal.com/safety
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/52394b_cd61791025984cf0b8438e3a58cf51a2.pdf
Cheers, T i m
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