OT: Objectifying animals. (Inc using their bodies as seats).

In your highly uneducated opinion.

The *massive* difference in the majority of cases is that *all* livestock has a very very *short* life as you typically have them killed when they are just children, because that's when their flesh is the most tender (or way before they may live in the wild).

So at best you could say they don't live a real 'natural' life (with all that brings) when their 'life' is often a tiny fraction of what time it might be in the wild and when that life is completely unnatural in many cases.

FACT. NONE of the male chicks (in the egg industry) survive past 1 day old.

FACT. Most of the male cows born in the wild last past a few days or a few months, unlike those unfortunate enough to have been born into the dairy industry.

How often do wild salmon swim round in circles for 3 years, or pigs lose their tails or teeth or hens the tips of their beaks in the wild?

But why would you want to be honest and accept the truth when it obviously doesn't suit your selfish agenda?

Cheers, T i m

If that's what you want to call it.

Partly, again for the benefit of 'productivity', nothing to do with the preferences of the individual animals.

Or more like to give production consistency and genetic manipulation.

I was talking of the likes of Turkeys who can no longer reproduce naturally.

I'm sure they did.

Really? Are you really asking this? (The irony though is if we weren't feeding crops to the livestock but were consuming it ourselves there would be a *surplus* crops).

No wonder you don't 'get' any of this. ;-(

Bingo ... did you really think that sort of thing would happen overnight? ;-(

Except they wouldn't 'die out', they would all be slaughtered inside a year (flesh) or 5 (milk) like they would be anyway.

Quite ... and we are, all be it slowly, with many things that were once considered perfectly acceptable re our treatment / use of animals over the years.

Still got a long way to go of course and like many such things it's a combination of education (of the masses) to reduce demand (also being addressed via animal welfare, human health, resource usage and the environment) and to get the suppliers to do something else that is equally important but kinder and more sustainable.

Cheers, T i m

post crap to a DIY newsgroup

I've disliked most vegetables since I started on solid food. I remember my father just about getting me to eat peas when I was 3 or so. Then came school dinners - in particular school dinners in 1951. Boiled cabbage - revolting taste and smell. I've hated brassicas ever since.

When I asked someone if they actually liked the taste of Brussels sprouts they told me how I could cook them with other stuff to make them taste nice / hide the taste. Given you couldn't (shouldn't) eat / digest meat without cooking it, the principals / issues aren't that different.

You know it makes sense. You are an omnivore with a bias on fruit / veg / nuts after all.

So you would *just* eat meat, given the chance? Do you have any dependants or children OOI? Anyone who might care if you got bowel cancer, suffered heart disease or T2 diabetes?

Ok.

Yup.

I was brought up to love, protect care for all animals and had a Guinea-pig as a child (not my idea) and tropical fish, and we always had dogs (mostly whippets). I also rescued a Rock dove when I was about 15, built it a safe roost at home, nursed it to heath and it lived (free) with us for a couple of years (before flying away when we went on a family holiday).

But are you saying that your liking for meat is so great you would pull the trigger on the heads of a calf with a bolt gun then cut it's throat, or send a pig into a gas chamber and watch it squeal and desperately try to escape ... before watching them have their throats cut and their guts spilled out?

I bet we (you and I) don't (you can't include the trolls, psychopaths or those with a history / vested interest in the whole process).

I bet inside you know your choices aren't right and you would rather animals didn't have to suffer and die, just to satisfy your taste buds?

So why wouldn't you put some effort into looking into alternatives?

Q. Do you do your own shopping?

Q. Do you do your own cooking?

Q. If you do the / some cooking, do you have to cook for anyone else?

Q. What are the chances of anyone else in your household being willing / interested in reducing the suffering of animals?

Q. Would those same people consider themselves animal lovers?

See, I understand that for many the issue isn't a simple / single one and so to stand up for their own principals could make things more difficult / complicated.

We though are open minded people so when daughter decided she had lived in conflict re her treatment of animals long enough (after trying to go organic / Red Tractor / RSPCA Assured and realising it was all marketing bollox) and went vegan in Veganuary 2020, we said we would support her, for her, for us (and our own long-term conflict) and the animals.

It wasn't any issue to do so for any of us because we were all happy to go along with it and none of us have regretted it for a ms.

As I have said before, our only regret is that we didn't do so sooner. Part of that was the lack of impetus, easier to carry on doing what we were doing (which for the last 5 years was not consuming dairy (doctors orders) and not eating much meat in any case) and the support for vegan choices across the board, something that is *now* changing very fast (and not just food).

Just because you aren't actually pulling the trigger or wielding the knife, you are paying someone to do that for you (and so also putting the mental burden on them as well), so the blood is on your hands.

So, what sort of food do you like? It can't just be chunks of burnt animal flesh?

Cheers, T i m

Didn't we have a wager on something Tim?

Cheers, T i m

Yup, that's one of the pictures, but I really don't see why it made the news or have become a big issue?

Many horses die each year in the 'sport' of horse racing / jumping as do greyhounds in greyhound racing, but as long as you aren't seen with their corpses that's ok it seems?

Kill thousands of innocent animals a day but behind the closed walls and windowless slaughterhouses and few seem to care.

They don't care because they are fed a load of lies by those with a vested interest in continuing the suffering, exploitation and death.

If the whole process was so 'normal' and 'wholesome', why do we never see it on any farming program or meat advert?

Do they think that a cow would be 'happy' to give up it's life after living on 'Happy Farm'?

Cheers, T i m

Ironic now you have all your food blended for you again?

Was that when he gave up on you then?

What, *just* 1951 and for everyone?

Yup, they were 'school dinners', not a fancy restaurant. Now the kids can just eat burgers and chips, much better for them of course.

And the chances are they think the same about you (given they are sentient etc).

But hey, at least no one is interested in your diet. Become a vegan and everone becomes a qualified dietitian, *believing* that animal flesh is a good source of all the nutrients we need (especially when eaten raw with our flesh ripping canine teeth and meat cutting incisors).

Cheers, T i m

You're obsessed with diets. You abuse anyone exercising their choice for a naturally balanced diet.

Most of us believe in a naturally balanced diet which includes meat for those vitamins and minerals we can';t get from plants.

Yes, that is why we are born with such teeth, so we can eat meat and meat products. It's in our genes. From you fanaticism I presume you must be envious I still have my own teeth?

Quite, whenever you see a fact you don't like the two likely results are you abusing the poster or simply ignoring it, hoping the poster will go away.

You exploit animals by keeping them as pets for your personal gratification, and then attempt to justify this despite subjecting them to cruel and violent acts like castration.

Does this not play on your mind and a good example of cognitive dissonance?

And what of pets (such as cats) that are obligate carnivores and need to eat meat to survive.

I don't see anyone starting a OT thread saying we should enforce the eating of meaty on vegans.

Is there an island you can go and leave us in peace? I'm sure we can create a crowdsource fund for a one-way ticket.

And that is your uneducated opinion.

Quite, tasty, and provides the least harm to the environment too.

In much the same we don't enjoy a natural life? I don't see the point. All like is subject to external influence and environment. Pig actually flourish in an artificial environment from reduced stress.

That is a fact, they are killed quickly as they're not much use in laying eggs. Would you invest in research so hens only lay female eggs? Perhaps they should be dosed with DDT?

Yet in previous posts you are happy to have vaccinations made from egg protein.

Many die very young too, often killing the mother too in the birth, or attempt.

So fresh salmon is ok? That's a move forward for you.

The only selfish person here is the one who wants to inflict their way of life onto others. You're free to continue with your vegan diet, but be aware there are consequences such as b12 deficiency. One is fanaticism and mental disorders.

Meat is one of those items that doesn't have to be cooked with other things. It already has a lovely flavour. The flavour has been programmed into our genes and signifies it is necessary as part of a healkhy diet.

Quite, and as part of a natural balanced diet we would eat meat and meat products.

If he had, I am sure they wouldn't be subjected to fanaticism and other mental health issues from a B12 deficiency.

There really is no need, from being a social animal, a higher species, gets someone else to do the deed for us. I don't see you fifhgint in the armed forces, or are you happy for someone else to do the deed of killing for you?

The only trolls and psychopaths are the ones that start topic like these.

Does she support you keeping pets? It must cause her great conflict.

Most of use like a range of foods. Shame you feel the need to imitate meat and meat products with substandard lookalikes.

That's quite a conclusion.

The only person showing bias and abuses those who don't share the same views as yourself is yourself. I would say Jim has far more empathy with fellow man than you can ever possibly understand.

Then support campaigns to reduce suffering.

So is sex considered 'normal' and 'wholesome', yet mysteriously absent from normal programming and adverts.

If the con doesn't know any better and dies a quick and painless death then yes.