OT: If all cars were electric ...??

If all cars were electric what, based on existing car ownership and mileage, would be the power demand over say 24 hrs, and any estimates as to peak?
Approximately what contribution would have solar panels at home (for those that can have them) provide?
What technologies exist for disposal/recycling of the batteries?
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AnthonyL

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AnthonyL wrote:

32 million cars, lets say 12,000 miles/year average, and that EVs can get 4 miles/kWh
384 billion miles / 4 = 96 TWh per year
Electricity generation has been trundling along at about 85 TWh per quarter in recent years.
Average power if distributed evenly over 24 hours all year long = 11GW So three Hinkley Point C's worth

If everyone wants to do it overnight make the peak at least double that, more like triple?

This time of year, fuck all
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On 30/10/2018 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:

Or from your figures above, 11 million kW continuous for 32 million cars, so 350 watts continuous per car. Or about 1 kW for 8 hours. No doubt Harry will be along soon to tell us how much his panels are providing at the moment.
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On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 15:26:00 +0000, newshound wrote:

can

per

11GW

Did this in another place recently and came up with 16 GW.

Closer to triple assuming an 8 hour overnight charge cycle.

(for

Summats not right there a EV battery is more like 40 kWHrs not 8... Home chargers are rated at about 7 kW.
There's barely 9 hours dawn to dusk up here now and that's "daylight" almost certainly not enough light to generate 1 kW for a significant amount of that period. Mid winter daylight is down to 7 hours.
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On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 17:32:44 +0000, GB wrote:

Only 8 k? That must be getting close to being uneconomic to have a car at all, unless its a little cheap as chips bean can on wheels...

Fairy nuff. There's plenty of scope for reasonable assumptions, I'm not convinced that 8 kmiles/year is particularly reasonable. I do about 15 kmiles/year.
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On 30/10/2018 17:53, Dave Liquorice wrote:

I do 4k (well, my wife and I do that between us). The 8k figure comes from the RAC link I included in my previous post.
The car is a 12 year old Volvo with a about 60k miles on the clock. I'm hoping to run it another 10 years, until it gets up to 100k. :)
I'll happily trade up to a new car once I can get one with reasonable self-driving capability, and I think 10 years might just about do it.

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Mine is a 13 year old Hyundai with about 65K kms on the clock.

I'm looking at what is buyable now because the Getz doesn’t have a cruise control and that’s a damned nuisance on long trips which I do a few times a year. Noticed when browsing that the best of them will even do full cruise control in start stop congested traffic with the cruise control completely automatically moving forward as required.
It would be handy to have a full set of cameras that would make parking in tight spaces more convenient.
Some of them even do fully auto self parking now. That would certainly be convenient.
Cost isnt a major consideration for me, I've never going to spend what I have accumulated so I might as well spend it on interesting toys that are useful.

I'd love that but arent prepared to wait for that.

Not clear if they will still be letting me drive then, or if that changes with self driving cars, or even if I will still be around then. Likely I will be given how long my dad lasted.

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On 30/10/2018 17:53, Dave Liquorice wrote:

I drive 21.5 miles to work/office most weekday mornings. Then I drive to the jobs.
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Some days I drive a short distance to the shops or to visit a local client; other days I have to drive much further, and probably beyond the range of an electric car. There's more than just average usage to consider - peak usage is also important.
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NY wrote:

For a given car/driver maybe, and AnthonyL hasn't been back with any comments, but I got the feeling he was interested in how feasible/infeasible it was from the infrastructure supply side to keep an all-electric fleet charged, rather than individual vehicles to carry drivers as far as they need to travel?
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wrote:

Correct - Andy Burns has supplied some figures and a few useful sources have been quoted for no of vehicles, average mileage, kwh/mile etc. I've punched some numbers into a spreadsheet but can't yet reconcile them with Andy's figures, too easy to get a decimal point out of line.
The last time the government made a major push for a technology for vehicles they incentivised the use of diesel with tax breaks etc. I would image at the time every Mechanical Engineer would have rolled their eyes in despair. My green sister wouldn't listen and bought a diesel even though she barely does 5,000 miles/year. My friend's diesel kept choking up because it only did slow and short distance suburban drives.
Anyhow I'll do a bit more work on the sums in a couple of days time and chuck my figures into the discussion.
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AnthonyL wrote:

Taking the lower 8000 miles per year rather than original 12000, but sticking with 32m cars and 4 miles/kwH
<https://www.google.com/search?q =((32000000+*+8000+miles)+%2F+(4+miles+per+kilowatt+hour)+%2F+365+days)+in+gigawatts&oq=((32000000+*+8000+miles)+%2F+(4+miles+per+kilowatt+hour)+%2F+365+days)+in+gigawatts>
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And just how many engineers are their in parliament? I don't think the government has any engineering advisors just scientists. Nowhere is this more apparent than when nukes are discussed.
--
bert

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On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 19:24:07 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Yes they do, but it's beyond any common sense for anyone to drive 100k a year. Over say a 40 week working year, five days a week that's 500 miles a day. Even as a one off it's tiring regardless of the comfort of the vehicle. To do it every day is absolutely crazy and you cease to be functional, and you totally cease to be of any value to your customer or your company.
In the past I've done 200 miles a day for weeks on end with anything from a 6 hour day to a 16 hour working day at the end of that traveling and it it utterly draining.
More recently 150 miles a day, with at least one leg 'offpeak' even on a relatively free running motorway (at times) is beyond what I could take even two days a week.
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The Other Mike wrote:

I used to do 20,000 but it doesn't make sense to roll personal numbers into these calcs, just find an average per vehicle, I thought average was 12,000 but would accept the AA figure of 8,000
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So would I. I seem to recall there are official stats by type of user and by vehicle taxation class maybe on the ONS site.
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On 31/10/2018 12:52, Andy Burns wrote:

Ive done 22,000 in 4 years on the current banger.
I used to do up to 70,000 a year ...
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On Tuesday, 30 October 2018 15:26:04 UTC, newshound wrote:

As it's dark, zero.
I run my car about 75% off solar power. More in Summer, less in Winter. But that's only possible because I'm retired.(And I have solar panels) I can pick and choose when I travel and when to charge the battery. There's no way every new car can be electric by 2040. We don't have the infrastructure.
In the immediate future, charging cars will be done at night by most people. But that spare capacity will soon be used up. Maybe we could have solar panels on workplace buildings but that wouldn't help on dull/short days.
I think the age of mass motoring will end in the next decade. The electric train will take the strain.
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harry wrote:

That isn't what 'they' plan anyway, just no more pure fossil fuel cars by 2040, some will go electric, others hybrid, I'll accept a petrol PHEV by then I expect.
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On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 11:18:01 -0700 (PDT), harry

Or hydrogen powered https://tinyurl.com/y8n3ya4q
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Chris

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