OT: If all cars were electric ...??

[The Other Mike]

They might put them on charge at 6pm wanting a 100% fill in say an hour or two but they will, at least eventually, pay a significant premium for a fast charge precisely because of the impact on the local distribution network. For a charge over 12 hours or a fast or semi-fast charge scheduled overnight at a time the network operator chooses they might pay less than a fiver to do 150 miles at current rates or around 3p a mile.

With all these arguments against electric cars one wonders how often hydrocarbon fuelled commuters refuel to the brim of the tank in a typical week of 30 mile daily commutes. With no weekend usage I could easily do that with one refuel of petrol every three weeks albeit at a cost of cost of over 60 quid, equating to

13p per mile.

[The Other Mike]

Are you thinking of putting your head in the oven?

[AnthonyL]

Correct - Andy Burns has supplied some figures and a few useful sources have been quoted for no of vehicles, average mileage, kwh/mile etc. I've punched some numbers into a spreadsheet but can't yet reconcile them with Andy's figures, too easy to get a decimal point out of line.

The last time the government made a major push for a technology for vehicles they incentivised the use of diesel with tax breaks etc. I would image at the time every Mechanical Engineer would have rolled their eyes in despair. My green sister wouldn't listen and bought a diesel even though she barely does 5,000 miles/year. My friend's diesel kept choking up because it only did slow and short distance suburban drives.

Anyhow I'll do a bit more work on the sums in a couple of days time and chuck my figures into the discussion.

[AnthonyL]

Their thinking (if one can attribute that term to them) seems to have oscillated and even the same newspaper had varying takes on it.

Judging by

the intention is to financially discourage hybrids.

[Andy Burns]

Taking the lower 8000 miles per year rather than original 12000, but sticking with 32m cars and 4 miles/kwH

[Dave Liquorice]

Quite, the income from fuel duty is a significant chunk of HMGs income.

But don't worry aboout it like no one worries about how renewables alone can replace the 25 GW or so CCGT capacity we have and use now.

[Dave Liquorice]

Everyones use is different. I'll be working at my closest regular venue on Saturday, 90 mile round trip, a pure electric car could do that. Next Saturday I'm back there but I'm also working Sunday and will need to be 130 miles from home by 0900, so that's on the road just after 0600 having got back home about 2000 Sat evening. 10 hour charge ought to be long enough to get me there but how do I get back? There is no power in the car park at Sundays venue to charge the car whilst working...

[Dave Liquorice]

Nearest station is 12 miles away, taxi fare is aound £25, one way.

[Dave Liquorice]

Thought that was obvious and a good solution to peoples probable objection about having to load/unload enroute. Not only luggage but all the stuff to occupy your time whilst travelling.

[tabbypurr]

eurocrates are far cheaper

NT

[tabbypurr]

Maybe the car boot will be a large size 'eurocrate' & it all gets transferred automatically. Makes way more sense than putting a large fleet of cars onto trains.

NT

[harry]

The gas industry is worried. That's all this is about. It will never catch on. Hydrogen today is made mostly from natural gas So what's the point?. Hydrogen from electrolysis of water is too inefficient to be worthwhile.

[bert]

In article , AnthonyL writes

And just how many engineers are their in parliament? I don't think the government has any engineering advisors just scientists. Nowhere is this more apparent than when nukes are discussed.

[Chris Hogg]

Very many years ago I had a little petrol-fired Primus stove. Ideal for camping in remote places where you couldn't get paraffin, but you could always get petrol.

[Bob Eager]

Go back 50 years and this kind of solution was being proposed - one day.

But it took it a stage further - containerising people and their luggage. Uber (or whatever) is loaded at start of journey with pax and luggage. Container part is demounted at rail station and loaded onto train. Same en route and at other end. Delivered on another road chassis.

[Steve Walker]

Exactly, so people will have to choose between paying way over the odds or having a car that they can't make a sudden, short notice journey in.

The point is that unlike electric cars, they can simply top up at a garage, within minutes, AFTER they get an urgent call and so do not need to keep the car topped-up at all times.

SteveW

[tabbypurr]

Someone put it well when they said something like you can do the weekly sho pping or go to hospital in an emergency in an electric car, but not both. T hey're relatively economical if and only if they're tiny and have tiny chea p batteries, but that only makes the charging situation worse. Too many tim es you can't go out because it's not charged, and you're always limited on journey miles. I would not consider a modern electric car, as has been expl ained they just don't add up.

Diesel really is the way forward. They have the economy & efficiency nothin g else has. The technology of cleaning them up has progressed a lot, and wi ll continue to do so as long as governments don't suffer the stupid reactio n of banning them. So they probably will. They are currently being unwarran tedly demonised.

NT

[harry]

hopping or go to hospital in an emergency in an electric car, but not both. They're relatively economical if and only if they're tiny and have tiny ch eap batteries, but that only makes the charging situation worse. Too many t imes you can't go out because it's not charged, and you're always limited o n journey miles. I would not consider a modern electric car, as has been ex plained they just don't add up.

ing else has. The technology of cleaning them up has progressed a lot, and will continue to do so as long as governments don't suffer the stupid react ion of banning them. So they probably will. They are currently being unwarr antedly demonised.

Apart from the pollution issue (as with other fossil fuel users) there is t he issue of running out of fossil fuels at some point. And CO2 emmissions.

[harry]

hopping or go to hospital in an emergency in an electric car, but not both. They're relatively economical if and only if they're tiny and have tiny ch eap batteries, but that only makes the charging situation worse. Too many t imes you can't go out because it's not charged, and you're always limited o n journey miles. I would not consider a modern electric car, as has been ex plained they just don't add up.

ing else has. The technology of cleaning them up has progressed a lot, and will continue to do so as long as governments don't suffer the stupid react ion of banning them. So they probably will. They are currently being unwarr antedly demonised.

Also overall energy efficiency comparisons.

[Andy Bennet]

More recent EV's use a reversible heatpump. Our Renault Zoe draws about 1kW for heating in the depths of winter with the inside a toasty 23 degrees. About the same for the aircon flat out in summer. Granted the heated seats/steering wheel are resistive, but only a few hundred watts more.