Fully Electric Car available soon

http://www.teslamotors.com /
Made by Lotus and will do low flying. A saloon available in around 18 months time. Well by, by, internal combustion engine.
http://www.wired.com/news/wiredmag/0,71414-0.html?tw=wn_story_page_prev2
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On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:27:01 +0100, Doctor Drivel wrote:

Well I suppose the usanians might get excited about it but on this side of the pond we've had the C5 for years :-)
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- Equiv to 135mpg - 130mph - 250 miles range (will be better when more improved batteries are out in a few years) - 0-60 in 3 secs or so.
Designed, and funded, by IT people, NOT people in the automotive industry - they wouldn't touch them as their minds are stuck in the past. They got Lotus involved in the car body design and they will make the car too. This a mass production car, not a 2 a week job. They have even produced a patented charger.
A saloon is due in 18 months time. They predict the miles range will be even better as a new generation of batteries comes in. The man who designed the cars management system, the key to the whole thing which gives the range, developed circuitry to extend the life of laptops.
The company is based in Silicon Valley.
It seems like the EV is here now for good. I'll have to buy one.
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Not all at once though.
If equiv to 135mpg and range 250 miles that suggests about $4 to recharge the battery. Assuming 15cents/kWh thats 26kWh stored energy.
As max power is 185kW which assume for 130mph, actual range approx 8.5 minutes or about 20 miles.
All assuming 100% efficiency which of course is crap. I am in UK so someone check my figures, but they don't stack up from where I am sitting.
Slurp
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On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 18:42:09 +0100, Slurp wrote:

The 3.5 hour home charger needs a 70 Amp 220V supply. 70 * 220 * 3.5 / 1000 = 49 kWatt-hours so the stored energy must be quite a lot higher than 26kWH otherwise you'd be cooking the batteries + charger if you lost 23kWH in heat.
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Without picking through your figures, you probably are right. Max speed is about power to drag. So going fast is very energy inefficient.
Picking through the specs, the vehicle weight is not quoted,and acceleration is power to weight - so that'll be another battery-eater.
So that 250 mile range probably requires gentle acceleration and moderate speed - but there are no concrete figures for the test conditions - so we don't know.
On the plus side it quotes 1000lb for the battery pack weight, and it sounds like it's using a single electric motor through a conventional powertrain. Lotus make a light car - so maybe around a ton kerbweight? And people from the electronics sector do know a few things about power management - they're used to doing everything possible to get the most out of a battery.
That many Li-ion cells must be a large proportion of the price - I wonder if you get good quality or even hand-matched cells? And how long before the battery pack has had enough and requires replacing?
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snipped-for-privacy@gglz.com wrote:

Indeed. All valid points.
the discharge rate is not excessive - anything over 20 minutes-to-flat is not a huge stress for a lithium cell, and that means they can be optimised for low self-discharge and decent cycle life. At least 100 cycles (20,000 miles) is EASILY obtained, and 500 cycles (100,000 miles) should be within reach. You wouldn't necessarily need hand matched cells. The way I'd do it is create plug in blocks each with a voltage/current/temperature monitor on them feeding a data bus, and switch em in and out as they got flat, or near overcharging, or too hot etc.
Then at service time, any substandard blocks get swapped out.
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A French electric car has the battery pack _on hire_ from the manufacturer. You don't buy it. Is that the way to go here?
Sylvain.
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Only if the manufacturer subsidises the cost. Hiring can never be cheaper than buying, as an average, in the long term.
--
*I don't have a license to kill, but I do have a learner's permit.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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The big problem with rechargeable cars is the length of time required to give a full re-charge. You can fully re-fuel an IC vehicle in minutes. I can see this being a bigger problem in the US, where people think nothing about driving hundreds of miles in a day.[1] Re-fueling stops will not neccesarily co-incide with convenient overnight stops!
I really can't imagine any battery charging process in the near future that can transfer energy anything like as quickly as pumping hydrocarbon fuel.
The only realistic solution I can see is having standardised battery-packs which can be swapped for fully-charged ones. But that's fraught with problems. It makes it difficult for manufacturers to to introduce new battery technologies, for example. Also, the size and weight make this a non-trivial problem on the forecourt too. Somewhat akin to doing an engine-swap every few hundred miles! Also, I imagine it will have consumer resistance because people will want to own 'their' batteries, and not swap them for ones of unknown history. Then there's the issue of who owns the actual cells, and who takes the financial hit when a battery pack finally gives up. The unfortunate person who happens to have the battery that day? Perhaps the idea of the manufacturer owning the cells and hiring them will address this problem.
Certainly an interesting idea.
[1] An American friend told me this a few months ago: What's a difference between a Brit and an American? A Brit thinks 100 miles is a long way, an American thinks 100 years is a long time.
--
Ron



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Ron Lowe wrote:

So let's substantially reduce the requirement for battery power / extend the range, by providing in-transit recharging.
We could have a scheme whereby on the major but low-speed routes in city centres is provided a network of overhead wires carrying electricity. A "collector" could be mounted on the roof of a vehicle to connect with these overhead wires. Consumption could be metered, although nowadays it would be trivial to have an onboard gizmo that would combine charging by mile, Ah or kWh, time, duration, position etc with continuous wireless transfer of data to the pricing administration.
It might not be feasible for all private vehicles to use this overhead power network, but electric buses, taxis and delivery vans all offer the opportunity for any specialised driver training required.
Owain
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And for a return electrode, we could put the things on rails...
--
Ron



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Toshiba have announced a battery that can take 80% of the charge in 3 mins, full in 5. Tesla are looking to the new batteries that will emerge in nest few years.

The avarage milage is approx the same as in the UK

The same here. 100 mile round commutes in the UK is quite common. People packing the car and driving 250 miles to the Lakes is quite common too.
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Doctor Drivel wrote:

That only solves a part of the problem. You then need a recharging point that can deliver the 100s or 1000's of amps required to take advantage of the fast charge rate.
--
Cheers,

John.

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"John Rumm" aka Chav snipped-for-privacy@nowhere.null> wrote in message

Chav, not insoluable.
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John Rumm wrote:

to recharge a 50KWh battery in say 5 minutes takes 600Kw. 2400A. at 250v.
Not impossible, but not trivial either.
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On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:08:58 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Or a less unreasonable 800A per phase 3 phase, or 450A per phase at 440V

That's going to be forecourt technology, with a cable as thick as a petrol/diesel filling hose!
However one could envisage the forecourt operators and vehicle designers conspiring together to offer slower (30 - 60 minute, but still faster than at-home) charging tied to supermarkets, cafes etc so that the punters form a captive market for the retail offering while waiting for their vehicle to charge up.
One would expect to pay more per kWH for the convenience (and the operator's investment in the infrastructure) with the cheaper, slower option of charging up at home from a more modestly rated home outlet, or trickle/very-slow charging/topping up from a standard (13-15A-ish) mains outlet. Of course if electric vehicles acheive a true mass-market there will be lots of people for whom home charging is simply not an option since they don't have off-road parking so forecourt charging will be the only option.
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No change there then.
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John Stumbles wrote:

On street parking meters?
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Slurp wrote:

Where are you going to do 130mph for 20 miles?
Efficiency overall charge to wheel should be around 90%.
I think you will find the range is cruising at 55mph, or 65mph, or an averaged cycle.
I also calculated about 30Kwh is what it takes to achieve this sort of performance.

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