OT: If all cars were electric ...??

Plenty of estimates, some with a factual basis, some with made up assumptions that the grid will 'melt at 6pm' because everyone now drives round with a full tank of hydrocarbons that can be filled in two minutes and will always want to immediately drive 600 miles. The reality is private mileage is lower than many realise, the average speeds are low, and thus the actual utilisation of vehicles is significantly lower than many appreciate leaving many thousands of hours to accumulate charge over the course of a year.

Not much at home except for summer weekends. A lot in summer if say your employer has panels and provides charging facilities. You might never need to charge at home and you certainly do not require your local council providing charging points.

Legally, at least at the moment, that's the 'problem' of the manufacturers, they have the responsibility and their manufacturing plants will have means on site or arrangements offsite to recycle all their own 'waste' The consumer nor anyone else other than environmental control needs to be involved.

Reply to
The Other Mike
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Yes they do, but it's beyond any common sense for anyone to drive 100k a year. Over say a 40 week working year, five days a week that's 500 miles a day. Even as a one off it's tiring regardless of the comfort of the vehicle. To do it every day is absolutely crazy and you cease to be functional, and you totally cease to be of any value to your customer or your company.

In the past I've done 200 miles a day for weeks on end with anything from a 6 hour day to a 16 hour working day at the end of that traveling and it it utterly draining.

More recently 150 miles a day, with at least one leg 'offpeak' even on a relatively free running motorway (at times) is beyond what I could take even two days a week.

Reply to
The Other Mike

always. The more you compress it, the more the efficiency. Compression igni tion means compressing it as far as is physically possible, spark means ign iting it before then.

depends entirely on the engine design. Petrol engines are not inherently lo w torque at low speed. The standard method of starting a Ford T from stands till was by not increasing revs above idle at all, and engaging the clutch fully with no slip period. And it was of course a very low power engine by today's standards. Once car engines go variable valve timing you can get th e best of both worlds, the efficiency & power of today's engines with effie ncy & torque at low revs.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

Diesel is a slow burning fuel, hence it runs out of puff & efficiency at hi gh rpm. Diesels are famous for failing to burn al the fuel, though modern i mplementations are a lot better. Any efficient ic engine necessarily produc es nox because high efficiency is down to high combustion temp, which is wh at causes nox.

I don't know whether it's practical to filter out particulates with cycloni c exhaust filtering, probably not. The high output pressure makes extreme c yclone rpm possible, which is why I wonder.

Nox is reactive, so some catalyst might solve that.

The particulate issue is more caused by tyres than diesel anyway - and far more caused by old diesels than modern. Hence we have a government witchhun t going on, which will only succeed in damaging our economy even further.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

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I seem to recall the prime choice to be first for conversion is somewhere in the North West now.

Reply to
The Other Mike

Again thats slightly faux logic. As I have repeatedly said, you get back investment in engineering on the average usage, but your design is always for worst case.

Worst case is me driving 200 miles to a customer, or 450 miles to see my sister.

Once year each, maybe, but I dont want to have to buy a second car JUST for that.

Otherwise I accept that say - grid loading - is probably reflected in the average

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I'd not be so sure. There are a few gas power stations co-located with industrial users in the UK using both low grade waste heat, specifically produced higher grade process heat and of course electricity. Despite greenhouses and eel farms close to coal fired plants, nuclear in the UK has iirc not spawned anything similar.

Anglesey Aluminium was owned by Rio Tinto and Kaiser Aluminium, so nothing to do with Alcan, and it was located many miles away from Wylfa but it did take a huge proportion of their output for decades.

Alcan had a site at Lynemouth in Northumberland and built their own coal fired power station immediately adjacent in the early 1970's.

The smelter is long gone, the power station now converted to biomass and now owned by EPH a Czech based company who also own a few generating and currently non-generating sites in the UK.

Reply to
The Other Mike

I used to do 20,000 but it doesn't make sense to roll personal numbers into these calcs, just find an average per vehicle, I thought average was 12,000 but would accept the AA figure of 8,000

Reply to
Andy Burns

So would I. I seem to recall there are official stats by type of user and by vehicle taxation class maybe on the ONS site.

Reply to
The Other Mike

I only do about 3000 miles per year, and almost never during a rush hour.

A more important question would be 'how will the govt raise the tax that fuel duty and VAT (on the fuel duty) generates on int. Combustion engines, when that is lost' ?.

Reply to
Andrew

And all the domestic gas central heating boilers also due to be switched to electric.

Reply to
Andrew

Why ?. If an electric car is not moving, how much power is it using (assuming daylight and summertime) ?.

Reply to
Andrew

Whereas worn out solar PV panels, because of their use of cadmium and other nasty pollutants may be defined as toxic waste and cost more to remove qnd dispose than the money they generated for the owner in the first place.

Reply to
Andrew

A computer with screens, an "ECU" for the battery/motor/charging/braking system, DRLs, a slow fan, radio, a 3G/4G connection (mandatory now), probably a GPS receiver ...

200 watts maybe?
Reply to
Andy Burns

Depends on what they're making. Most pottery doesn't need reduction; only the German porcelain industry and some Worcester porcelain use a reducing atmosphere, firing up to ~1400°C. Otherwise it's ~1280°C for bone china and sanitaryware, or lower for earthenware (~1100°C), tiles and bricks (~1000°C), etc.

But there are good reasons for using gas other than to get a reducing atmosphere. The long flame you get with a gas burner ensures even heat distribution in and around the pieces being fired, thereby avoiding uneven heating and the consequent stressing, distortion and cracking of the pieces being fired.

There was a sanitaryware factory in S.W. Sweden IIRC that had a tunnel kiln fired by electricity, some thirty or so years ago (can't remember their name). The kiln had a very low and narrow cross section, just big enough for a single line of toilets or lavatories (washbasins to you!), tiny compared with modern sanitaryware kilns, see

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. It was lined with SiC heating elements, these sort of things
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and the outside of the kiln was festooned with cables. It was expensive to run, the expensive heating elements had to be replaced fairly frequently, and the company eventually became uncompetitive when up against companies using large modern kilns, and closed.

Small shuttle kilns are often used in the tableware industry for batch-firing small quantities of selected items or for decoration firing. They are usually electric, with Kanthal wire elements, but in general, gas is the preferred fuel.

Modern brick kilns are also very large,

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, and I can't see them being fired electrically. The brick clays of Bedfordshire contain enough organic matter to be virtually self-firing, requiring almost no additional fuel to reach ~1000°C, but of course they do produce a lot of that nasty CO2 (and fluorine, as HF) in the process. They are often fired in Hoffmann circular kilns. These kilns can be kept in active production for years without being extinguished.
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When I was a hobby potter, I had two electric kilns and one gas kiln, the last for reduction firing. But they were minute in comparison with modern industrial kilns. Firing with electricity won't scale up easily, if at all.

Reply to
Chris Hogg

Yes and no. Thers a bird sanctuary by Sizewell that the birds love cos e seawater is warm :-) And so is the sanctuary

I stand crrected. The principle though remains. The distance was about

40 km, which not a big deal for a cable

In the end all these things are cost benefit driven (ex of stupid politicians) plus you nbeed a bit of enterprise. The national grid built a fibre network alongs its HV network and sold nbandwith to ISPs back in the day. I knew the guy who made that happen. Conversely network rail and the canal systems both had marvelous wayleaves that they could have banged down long haul fibre on but being more 'nationalised' the mere thought of doing something useful and original for profit was, it seems, anathema

To f*ck things up, get the government involved. To really f*ck things up, nationalise it.

My point being taht if nuclersa pwoer staiuos were to say 'hmm we can make a bit of eextrar dosh selling low grade heat' and lease say a bit of site to a market gardener... ...but they would have to have people interested in doing that.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Ive done 22,000 in 4 years on the current banger.

I used to do up to 70,000 a year ...

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

What, about "does that include in-car heating and window defrosting in the colder months?" , did your moronic brain fail to grasp?

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Think thats probably OTT.25W.

But we were talking specifically about winter heating and defrosting..

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I think that is almost certainly a false statement. In the end all that heats the kiln is a hot gas. You can generate hot gas with the equivalent of an oversized hair dryer. With maybe an arc instead of an element These things are possible, but not done because they are currently uneconomic.

"Industrial arc furnaces range in size from small units of approximately one ton capacity (used in foundries for producing cast iron products) up to about 400 ton units used for secondary steel making. Arc furnaces used in research laboratories and by dentists may have a capacity of only a few dozen grams. Industrial electric arc furnace temperatures can be up to 1,800 °C (3,272 °F), while laboratory units can exceed 3,000 °C (5,432 °F). "

wiki

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

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