Euro Electrics

So you're hoping to heat your house with electricity generated by gas fired power stations?

The idea of heating the whole house simply didn't exist. You heated the living room only. Possibly the bedroom for a short time just before going to bed.

So we forsake safety and kill a few people for the sake of pointless "harmonisation"?

The new europlug has no integral fuse does it? Fused adapters? Should see a few more people off.

You can add to an installation to an earlier standard. That wouldn't be possible with the unfused europlug.

How?

Oh good - kill a few more people by making improvement to fixed wiring prohibitively expensive and impractical.

I can see no case whatsoever for killing people and squandering millions of pounds to achieve a pointless standard.

I presume we will all have to drive in the middle of the road as standardising on any one countries system would be unfair?

Took a World War to stop the last attempt at that. Why should I want to follow the same rules as a Frenchman? Why not the same rules as a Chinese gentleman or an Argentinean? Why should I have to use europroducts rather than American?

No different from visiting the USA or Asia or Africa.

Who cares? Europe is awash with such petty and useless bureaucracy (ignored for a small bribe), we need far less of it imposed - not more.

Tried using (or even changing) Euros in the Far East, or the USA? The credit card is now the ubiquitous form of currency.

Exactly as it should be. Much of your arguments make sense only on a world wide scale, not a petty european one. Do you really want a future world where everything is the same (and officially perfect)?

The last three items I have bought came with 100-250VAC PSU's with interchangeable plug plates so they work anywhere, not just Europe.

So I'm going to have to have 24 MCB's in the kitchen, the same in the office, 20 in the living room, 10 in the dining room, a dozen in each bedroom and about 30 in the garage? Total of about 150 MCB's in the house. What green weed was the idiot who proposed this on?

Alternatively I could adopt the euroapproach and "improve" safety by having one socket in each room and daisy chained 16A extension leads and adapters plugged in to adapters.

In my case electric Boiler - I'm not ripping up all the floors and electric underfloor heating is nowhere near as good as wet underfloor heating.

If you go the boiler route you will always need two in case the first one breaks down ;-)

I never saw PVC insulated TW&E until the '60s - shortly before the changeover to metric.

Then buy better plugs and sockets and or fit them correctly.

No - your *house* wiring is not well designed. And changing to radial circuits would not improve matters here - your house builder was simply skimping on material and labour costs.

Two part devices aren't normally considered as portable.

Good grief. I've got as many power tools as most and again can't remember replacing a fuse. Perhaps you need to buy tools that are up to the job?

The mini CU needed in my listening and viewing room would cover one entire wall if each and every appliance and light had its own MCB.

Same in my computer room.

Then take more care in your workmanship.

A radial circuit could easily have the earth broken at some point and still 'work' too.

He was talking about the ISO protcol stacks, not ASN.1...

Architect's Specification 1947 says: "(TRS) It is however a less reliable system (than lead alloy sheath) and cannot be recommended for use in permanent structures. The alternative to tough rubber is a sheathing of poly-vinol [sic] chloride (P.V.C.)

Extracts from post-war building studies No. 11, Eletcrical installation

Clause 95. Systems of Wiring. ... wiring should be carried out in vulcanized rubber-insulated cable (similar cable, insulated with polyvinyl chloride, which form a satisfactory alternative to which the possibility of post-war rubber shortage gives added importance) run in ... conduit.

So although PVC T&E may not have been common, PVC insulated cables in conduit has a long history.

Owain

You're having a laugh. The electrics in the Italian flat I stayed in were pretty bad. Not old, either, clearly rewired in the last 10 or 15 years. There was a pitifully low rated RCD (25A IIRC). Several of the sockets had scorch marks. We had to hunt round the house to find an unblackened socket to plug our stuff into.

We were lucky not to lose our deposit too, as the switch to the kitchenette unit was installed directly next to and above the hob burner. You have to remember not to centre the pan on the burner, or it melts the switch. We, of course, forgot one night and had a disturbingly melted and twisted switch plate. We, ahem, may have swapped it with an undamaged one hidden behind the washing machine (which was installed within touching distance of the bath/shower).

Christian.

Bizarre. I don't recall replacing a fuse in the plug since I was a kid, and that was after a vacuum cleaner damn near exploded. I have never had one go on a power tool.

Christian.

Why? Not all those sockets will have appliances permanently connected to them anymore than anywhere else in the house.

In my place I've got two double sockets per wall in every room as a minimum. If every one was loaded to 13 amps I'd need a 1500 amp incoming supply.

Diversity is the name of the game - throughout all electrics domestically.

Yes - I've no experience of Italian electrics but seen this with Spanish ones.

A decent quality UK 13 amp plug properly wired - or a moulded type - when used with a decent quality socket - won't show signs of burning even at 3 kW load. Of course if it's used with an unswitched socket and regularly plugged and unplugged under full load there's likely to be some signs, but then who does that or uses them these days?

My kitchen sockets are all 25 year old+ Crabtree Classic brushed chrome types, and still look like new. Including the ones with the kettle, washing machine, etc, near permanently plugged in.

Real clever reply, mate. It's other people's workmanship I worry about.

That makes it unreliable too then. M.K.