We would like to take down a wall that runs in the center and the length of my small bungalow.
We have a crawl space. There are two cinder block posts on cement pads in the crawl space. They are both spread apart from one another and in the middle of the crawl space and positioned lengthwise to the house. Does this mean the wall is necessary?
The house is about 24' wide.
I have a picture of the truss but can't post here. They are 2x6, and 2x4 at the smaller edge (I think that's called the knee wall??.
Thoughts? I've read a lot about truss and load bearing and am somewhat confused...
If you have roof trusses, the 2x4's should be assembled into triangular structures, with metal plates connecting each joint. A "W" shape is the most common layout for residential trusses. Is this what you see in your attic?
A roof truss is usually designed to be supported only by the two outside walls, and the interior walls are just partitions that don't support any of the structure above.
However, before you tear it out, you may want to investigate a bit more.
Climb up into the attic and see if there are any posts, walls, or other structures that might rest on the wall below. If so, the wall may be holding up that load, even if the trusses support the roof itself.
Assuming there are no loads above, it is probably safe to remove the wall.
Before you rip it out, you might want to remove the interior wall covering and see if there are any headers above the doorways. Load bearing walls typically have a large header above the doorways, whereas a partition would normally just have a simple 2x4 frame around the door opening. You could probably determine this with a stud finder too, with the interior coverings still in place.
Thank you Anthony this helps a great deal. Yes there are metal plates connecting each and it is a W style. The house was built in the 1970's and was a cottage. I will check the other areas you mention. Thanks again!
What would the purpose of the crawl space piers be, if that is not a load bearing wall? Just support of the floor? I'd be cautious here.
It is also is not certain that he actually has a truss. That's a technical term and he may or may not be interpreting what he sees in the attic correctly.
I have a house inspection report that says truss. From all I've read I think they call it a double cantilever. I am concerned about those piers in the crawl space as well. Will check it out further. P.S. He is a she :)
Agree, kind of. He doesn't say if the cement block piers are located directly under that wall or not. On the other hand, if that is a load bearing wall, 24 ft long, then there should be support under it, not only at the ends, but midpoint. Without actually seeing this and given the possible consequences, impossible to say.
Up in your attic, under the insulation, there are a bunch of joists that support the ceilings in your home. 24' would be a long unsupported joist. I'd bet that that you have a central beam supporting the joists. The central beam is supported by the mid-house wall. My guess is that it's a load bearing wall. If you tear it out, you'll need a few support columns to carry the weight down to the flooring structures.
| We would like to take down a wall that runs in the center and the length of my small bungalow. | We have a crawl space. There are two cinder block posts on cement pads in the crawl space. They are both spread apart from one another and in the middle of the crawl space and positioned lengthwise to the house. Does this mean the wall is necessary? |
If you're doing it yourself you should be able to figure it out by inspecting the structure. If you have a contractor then why are you trusting people in a newsgroup, who can't see the house, over your contractor's judgement?
The decision really should be made by someone on-site.
I would assume the piers support beams in the crawlspace that floor joists rests on. A roof truss can easily span 24', floor joists typically need intermediate support unless they are very large.
The original poster (Jamie?) could verify by seeing if there is a beam running down the middle of the house on top of those piers in the crawlspace. Then see what size floor joists she has (I would guess 2x8 or
2x10 for a 12' span). Also pay attention to whether the joists join together over that beam, or if they are continuous from one side of the house to the other.
Trusses are fairly easy to identify by their triangular structures and metal truss plates. Also that they are typically built only with 2x4's. Traditional rafters and ceiling joists usually require larger lumber to support the spans (i.e. 2x6 rafters).
Still, even if the roof is constructed with trusses, there could be other loads bearing on that wall. No way to know without climbing up in the attic and looking.
I don't know if it matters to the basic question of your posts, but why do you think it is a cantilever, and why double? You may have a good reason, so I'm interested.
But, cantilever does not refer to the geometric pattern of the pieces of the truss, but to how the whole thing is supported. "A cantilever bridge is a bridge built using cantilevers, structures that project horizontally into space, supported on only one end." In practice, there are usually two pieces to such a bridge that meet above the middle of a river.
But the trusses supporting a roof, like the ones I have, are supported at each end. If the truss were cut half way across, there is no way its attachment at just one wall could support even that one half.
Contrast that with
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Dictionary.com for cantilever
any rigid structural member projecting from a vertical support, especially one in which the projection is great in relation to the depth, so that the upper part is in tension and the lower part in compression.
Building Trades, Civil Engineering. any rigid construction extending horizontally well beyond its vertical support, used as a structural element of a bridge (cantilever bridge) building foundation, etc.
Aeronautics. a form of wing construction in which no external bracing is used.
Architecture. a bracket for supporting a balcony, cornice, etc.
In a roof truss, the upper part is in compression and the lower part is in tension, the opposite.
OTOH, I don't accept there speculative etymology. I think the origin of the word may be counter lever. The weight at or on the other side of the support provides leverage to hold up the unsupported end.
Well, you could, I suppose, use roof trusses like two awnings, facing opposite directions from where they are supported in the middle. Possibly for a fairground pavilion, so from the side the building looked sort of like a tree. with no outside walls, just something in the midline, maybe 3 or 4 feet wide to hold up the middle of the trusses.
Then the upper part would be in tension and the lower part in compression. I've never seen this, and it's conceivable the metal plates, with nail equivalents, wouldn't work so well when the tension was in the opposite direction (though I think they are symmetric, in result, even though the "nails" are possibly bent only from one direction. I haven't paid enough attention.).
But if it did work, in that case they would be balanced cantilevers, sort of like a teeter-totter that doesn't teeter.
But I suspect your trusses are supported at the ends and not in the middle.
Cantilever roof trusses are actually fairly common when you want the roof to extend out over a porch or patio. See the "Cantilever truss" on this page for an example:
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Of course, I don't know if this applies to Jamie's situation. Without a picture of her roof and attic space, we're just making guesses.
Jamie: Have a look at the page above to see what a common roof truss looks like.
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