And you thought some of the English building regs were OTT?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18266064
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Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm wrote:

Others are pushing for it too
http://www.derbys-fire.gov.uk/keeping-safe/think-sprinkler
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Andy Burns wrote:

From that link
a.. Dependable Sprinklers not only warn of a fire, they also act immediately to control it - even if no body is present.
Should that not say "no one"?
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Adam



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On 30/05/2012 23:52, John Rumm wrote:

One township in the USA mandated the installation of sprinklers in all buildings so that it could save the cost of maintaining its fire department.
Colin Bignell
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John Rumm wrote:

John,
As one who over the years has been involved in repairing several fire damaged dwellings (two with fatalities) [1], I think that sprinklers in dwellings are a bloody good idea, and is one of those where the value of fitting them could well far outweigh the costs in lives saved and reduced injuries. As for the builders shouting about the costs, they will recoupe these simply by increasing the cost of their houses from eye-watering to larcency with the extortionate profits they make on them.
Now if they could legislate for householders to have some training in how a dwelling fire develops when doors are left open at night, along with the very high temperatures created, and how to escape from a burning building, that would be a bonus - but then the shoutsof a "nanny state" would be very loud!
[1] Some of the sights I've seen have been horrendous, and I have a great respect for those professionals that fight the things (and a great awareness instilled in myself and family).
All the best
Cash
Who will now climb down from his high-horse after leaving many of his thoughts on the subject left unsaid.
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The real problem with the cost is that only a tiny subset of houses ever have a fire that sprinklers would help with.
We dont mandate full fire hose hydrants in all houses either, for the same reason.

The problem is that home buyers will have to pay that cost.

Because, again, its just not cost effective.
We dont even do it with car drivers and they have a lot more life threatening accidents than we see with life threatening fires in houses.

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Rod Speed wrote:

But even with that "minority" it's worth the cost if it saves just one life!
Just treat it as an insurance policy, and how often do you expect to claim off your house insurance? But as you are a sensible person, you still bear the cost of that - even though over many years, that policy is likely to cost far more than a sprinkler installation.

Many householders would be to panicky during a fire to even think of using a hydrant (even *if* they knew how to use the hose properly).

Or heaven forbid, the builder could reduce his profit marging by the relatively small cost of such installation during the building process - (because at that stage, when everything is accessible for first and second fixing, it is a relatively small unit cost per dwelling within the larger scheme of things).

There we go again, cost before the actual value of something in preventing loss of life!

A very poor analogy to use, particularly as most of those "life threatening accidents" are caused by the driver's stupidity and/or lack of skill!
Now, as most car drivers have had formal training and passed a test before they are let-loose on the roads by themselves, in theory at least, they are far better prepared than the average householder for any emergency - and even if they never have an accident, they are still required to have a valid insurance policy..
Cash
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Fraid not. There are much more cost effective ways of ensuring no loss of life.
We dont even mandate back to fire station alarms in every house for a reason, and that would be much cheaper than sprinklers in every house.

No thanks, because there are much cheaper insurance policys.

I choose not to insure my house. Essentially because I designed it so that no fire will ever burn it down and I know it cant be washed away in a flood etc.

I dont actually.

In fact thats bogus because people like you would have both.

Just as true of the places where they are mandated.

Still not cost effective.
Neither is back to fire station alarms in every house done that way either.

Thats how you decide what to mandate in all houses.
We dont mandate no combustible materials in any house for a reason, even tho that would save some lives.
We dont ban all use of cars, even tho doing that would certainly save some lives.

Nope. And it isnt an analogy either.

Just as true of life threatening house fires.

Not for what to do after a life threatening accident they arent.

Which doesnt do a damned thing about stopping someone from dying.
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Rod Speed wrote:

Have you also designed it so that hurricanes never occur, that heavy rain never occurs, that scotes never chuck bricks through your window or smash you door in.
There's a reson for the trope "if you can't afford to insure X, you can't afford X".
JGH
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We don't get hurricanes here. We don't get cyclones here either.
Yes, I designed the roof so it wont blow off and since I built the house myself, doing almost all the work myself, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper to just do the roof again than even a single year's insurance.

Heavy rain does occur sometimes, but the house is designed so that that does not result in an insurance claim and its been proven over 40 years now that it was designed to handle heavy rain fine.

It's a lot cheaper to just replace the window if that happens.

Its just another silly line. I only insured the new car because I happened to find an operation that would insure it for just $100 and when its now been hiked to 3 times that, don't bother with that insurance anymore either.
That's a separate matter to the compulsory injury insurance which doesn't cover injury to me. If I do get injured in a car accident, our very decent national health care system will pay for that without me having to pay even a cent unless I want to buy a newspaper when in hospital and I have to do that even when I'm not in hospital. The TV in hospital is free.
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On Thu, 31 May 2012 11:28:33 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

Neither did Birmingham, till 2005.
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We wont ever get them here.
And even if we did, the house would survive them fine anyway.
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Some diyers are able to repair the expected damage from any of the usual risks. For anyone able to, the expected cost of repairs times the probability of the happening is vastly cheaper than insurance.
NT
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And that's clearly true of me since I build the entire house from scratch myself.

Yep. In spades with someone who has built the entire house from scratch.
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wrote

Hilarious. LMFAO.
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On Thu, 31 May 2012 14:48:34 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

Well, I was born after that ;). To be fair, after the 2005 event, I saw a programme on tornadoes in the UK, and was astounded to learn the UK is the tornado capital of the world, with Yanks coming to study them. Turns out we have a lot of very small ones. In fact the real question (which is what the USAians were researching) is why we don't have more 2005-scale tornadoes.
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Rod Speed wrote:

"Little pig, little pig, let me come in." "No, no, not by the hair on my chinny chin chin." "Then I'll huff, and I'll puff, and I'll blow your house down."
--
Adam



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Wont be blowing my house down.
Its a very unusual design, 4" square RHS ( rectangular hollow section] verticals that were there before the concrete slab was poured, so they go right down into the slab, with a 5x3" RHS horizontal bolted to the top of 4" square RHS verticals, with folded very heavy gauge galvanised I beams welded to the 5x3 horizontal RHS. Those I beams have wooden 3x3" to 7x3" battens bolted to them to give the slope on the metal decking.
It'd survive a full hurricane or cyclone and we dont get those here anyway.
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On 31/05/12 01:43, Cash wrote:

The more you wrap people up in cotton wool, the more cavalier they become. We do it to children now and the real world comes as a terrible shock. Most fires, I suspect are caused by carelessness or irresponsibility and it should not be everyone else's responsibility to take care of you, with the attendant additional costs - no doubt the fire prevention industry will deem an annual inspection is essential. Yes one life's too many, so take care of yourself, your family and your property.
Andy C
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Andy Cap wrote:

I don't wrap the gf's 8 year lad up in cotton wool. However I see the shock with the 17/18 year old apprentices I work with when they enter the real world.

Indeed.
--
Adam



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