Stove - wood or pellet?

We want to get a stove to warm quite a large room which has no fireplace. As far as I can see, this means a pellet stove?
Unfortunately, my wife finds the pellet stoves she has seen rather ugly - she wants something like an old-fashioned wood stove.
Any suggestions gratefully received.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 05/11/12 22:21, Timothy Murphy wrote:

No.
Yes.
You will need a proper double insulated stove pipe going to the outside world and a hearth constructed of e,g,. quarry tiles or concrete and some way for air to get in - a ventilator to an outside wall behind the stove is good. Some stoves can use balanced flues or special plumbed in flues IIRC, but check on that.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I too am planning to install woodburners, in a couple of disused fireplaces I'm going to bring back into use. I'll probably need to fit stainless steel flues. Do all flues & burners have a standard gauge or do I have to worry about matching them up? I'll probably be going for quite small burners, about 3-4kW at most. Recommendations welcome.
[Sorry I posted this to a new thread too before seeing this one.]
--
Les

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 05/11/2012 22:21, Timothy Murphy wrote:

Don't need a fireplace for a proper wood stove. You do need a chimney or similar, and suitable non-combustible thing to stand it on, but your traditional Jotuls etc all sat out in the room.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 06/11/12 02:12, Clive George wrote:

Legally you need a non combustible hearth.
You do need a chimney or

But not on the carpet.
--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

There seem to be two different sets of regulations - one about the constructional hearth (big lump of non-combustible stuff under the floor) and the show fireplace/hearth (tiles etc. in front of/under the stove).
Some stoves are certified to sit on a decorative hearth. Others require a 'real' hearth underneath. It is all to do with the maximum temperature generated by the stove underneath - if this is certified to be within safe limits you can manage with just a decorative hearth.
To quote our stove installer:
"The Stockton 7 is unfortunately not able to stand on a 12mm thick hearth, which means it needs to stand on a full blown constructional hearth as per Building Regs Document J paras 2.23 to 2.28.
What this means in practise is that you will need to lay a concrete base 125 mm thick and 840mm x 840mm square where the stove is to sit. This can be laid level with the floor boards and any decorative hearth can be laid over it and be smaller if it suits.
I've attached a pdf of Doc J for your use.
Another option might be to look at a different stove, one that is able to stand on a 12mm hearth (not a constructional one). This doesn't mean that the hearth has to be 12mm thick, it just the way the industry talks about stoves that have been tested to show that they don't raise hearth temperatures to over 100 deg C.
An example might be the Franco Belge Montfort Elegance, which can also have a direct air supply (5Kw) or its bigger brother the Monaco 6Kw.
As a matter of interest, what drew you to the Stockton 7? What will the cubic measurement of the finished room be ? 7Kw will heat up to 100m3 in a well insulated house. It may get too hot! "
We went with the Stockton and the constructional hearth. The constructional hearth because we were tearing the place apart anyway so putting in a concrete slab was not a big issue, and we would not be limited in choice of stove in the future. 7 kW because the total volume of the new open space at the rear of the house was around 100m3. The stove does heat up the area quite quickly when going full blast but when ticking over we need an additional source of heat to keep the place warm (which should be installed this week with luck).
Cheers
Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Timothy Murphy wrote:

Is the wife in any position to call the stoves ugly?
Bill
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

How large is 'quite large'? There are online tools which can calculate the kW output required to heat a room (usually linked from stove suppliers) and most wood burners are rated in kW output. An 8kW wood burning stove can heat quite a large space. This assumes you have a good supply of free/cheap seasoned hardwood. These days if you have to buy logs at a commercial rate then using wood for heating is more expensive than most other forms of heating. Seasoned kiln dried hardwood can cost between 100 and 200 per ton and with constant use a large stove will chew through that in a couple of months.
To buy and install a stove in the 7-8kW range where there is no fireplace is likely to cost you over 2,000 where more than half the cost is for the flue installation.
Moral - use a wood burning stove as a luxury item unless you have your own secure supply of wood and the space to store and season it.
Cheers
Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 06/11/12 07:03, David WE Roberts wrote:

a 10Kw boiler can heat my whole house. The 600W aga heats the whole kitchen...
DO NOT get too big or you wont be able to throttle it back to what is required and it will chew through wood.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, November 6, 2012 7:03:52 AM UTC, David WE Roberts wrote:

I have a woodshed full of firewood, and a significant amount waiting to be be chopped and stored under cover - pretty much all of it was free from skips.
(Note: I know we can't /all/ heat our houses from skips - but there is still plenty of scope for the number of people doing so to increase.)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Way to go. Local builders merchant is a good skip to look in. I have planted my own cut-and-come-again firewood trees.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Be aware that modern stoves and flues come with fairly stern warnings about only burning seasoned hardwood.
No treated timber. No pallets. etc.
Not that this should necessarily stop you but if you have a warranty claim they may get a bit picky. The gopher for the installer claimed they can now test liners to see if treated timber has been used. [Then again they were offering kiln dried hardwood at 200 a load.] It would also be pretty obvious if wet wood and/or softwood had been used unless the stove was run for a long time at high heat using dry hardwood.
So skip diving is a good way to get timber (builders do like to throw off-cuts away) but there are ramifications.
Cheers
DAve R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

There are too many tosser out there ready to make a quick buck by over complicating an issue. I have burnt lots of pallets. You need a good blaze once a week to keep chimney tarring down.
The reason for not burning treated timber is that it may contain arsenic which then gets released into the atmosphere.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Pellet stoves are intended to be automatically fed with fuel from a separate fuel store. They are not intended to be in the front room but in a "boiler room" They are intended for whole house heating. This is why they look "industrial" If you want a pretty stove it will need to be a traditional one.
Try and get a room sealed one, ie draws its air from outside through a pipe in the wall. They are much more efficient at heating the room. You will need a chimney, it will cost as much as the stove.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 23:58:37 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

Yep.
I think there are a few pellet stoves about that aren't industrial boxes but only a few. You don't get quite the same "real fire" effect though. And you'll be restricted to burning pellets that have to be bought and and stored somewhere. At least a traditional wood burner can burn any wood you can get.

Perhaps not a chimney as in a brick/block refractory lined structure but certainly a flue which could be stainless steel tube attached to an outside wall running up to 1m above roof height. Putting the flue through the building is an option but is not as easy due to the clearances required from it to combustable materials like floorboards, joists and rafters.
The flue is certainly going to cost equal if not more than the stove and hearth. IIRC the hearth has to be incombustable at least 6" bigger than the stove at the sides and back and 12" bigger at the front and around 6" thick. Not sure how close combustable materials can be to the stove, 12" springs to mind but could be further. Don't think combustable materials can be closer than 6" but you wouldn't want that anyway as it would restrict the airflow and thus room warming abilty of the very hot box of iron. Be aware that stoves are hot, they can cause burns. Think about the postioning and risk of placing a hand on it to steady ones self or falling against it.
An important aspect is to get the right output stove for the size of room. Work out the heat loss of the room then look at stoves around that output. It's not good to but a 6kW output stove into a room with only 3kW of heat loss, it'll get rather warm and stoves aren't instantly controllable like gas or electric heating. You can run a stove at less than full output but to constantly run at 50% is not good for the stove or flue.
--
Cheers
Dave.




Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tuesday, November 6, 2012 7:58:37 AM UTC, harry wrote:

As noted my many others: No.

Some pellet stoves are designed for use in a living room. The reason we went for a non-pellet stove, is that the pellet stoves burn a small number of pellets in a forced draught. The fan makes a noticeable noise.

Yes. You don't need a traditional fireplace, but you WILL need some sort of chimney. This can be a traditional brick chimney, or a stainless steel tube inside or outside the house - but you will need something.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Monday, November 5, 2012 10:21:22 PM UTC, Timothy Murphy wrote:
Ash makes the best firewood and there will be a lot available shortly.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That did cross my mind but they seem to be burning it all in the open with no though given to global warming, climate change, or the future of our children.
Possibly the infection remains in dead wood so it all has to be destroyed. Although unless they also dig up and destroy all the roots I am not sure how they really eradicate the infection.
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Ah - from http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/INFD-8YRDY7 ". continues to permit imports of sawn ash timber from certain countries abroad under existing regulations against the forestry pest Emerald Ash Borer. These require the material to be accompanied by official phytosanitary (plant health) certificates declaring that the material either originated in areas known to be free of EAB or that the wood is bark-free (which addresses the Chalara risk as well) before entering GB. Imported woodchips and bark of ash material have the same certification requirements as for wood, but the alternative to originating in an area of pest freedom is that the material has been processed into pieces of not more than 2.5cm thickness and width.
Although there are no specific measures on logs and firewood in the legislation, the general prohibition on spreading Chalara fraxinea will mean that movement is prohibited within Great Britain of logs and firewood from sites with confirmed Chalara fraxinea infection which have been served with a Statutory Plant Health Notice."
So no cheap firewood :-(
In fact, with masses of hardwood trees being destroyed firewood is likely to be even more expensive.
Cheers
Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

They don't remove the bark when they are making pellets. Hard to see how any insect could survive the process however.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.