Wing mirrors on cars

[James Wilkinson Sword]

I thought we agreed on politics.

[Kim Smith]

Are we supposed to clap at this point?

PKB, do it yourself, or don't you know how to operate one? Why ask everyone else to killfile him for you?

Maybe it's just you that's wrong?

[rbowman]

In many cases.

[boltar]

Dumping the clutch is using it as a torque multiplier via engine momentum and doesn't count and it doesn't work with autos anyway. I was talking about when the clutch is already engaged. Lets see the wheezing lump of pig iron under the bonnet of your 1.3 austin muppet manage it then.

[boltar]

Most RWD drive cars have a 50/50 weight distribution give or take these days. Also when a car moves foward the torque of the rear wheels reacts against the body to tip the car up at the front so transfering weight to the back and thats increased with the rear suspension being compressed. Of course in reverse the reverse happens so don't bother trying to reverse up a snowy hill in RWD as I've seen a couple of people try in the past. It don't work.

[damduck-egg]

Reverse had its uses as it is usually a lower ratio than Ist and could let an engine on tick over just gently drive the wheels as slow as possible without slipping the clutch which could help in situations of really marginal grip.* It was the only way dad could get the Cortina out onto the road in very slippery as the exit of our yard had a steep incline where it ramped up onto the lane with about 5 yards of 1 in 8. Successive decades of turning a muddy track into a tarmaced road had raised it 2 to 3 ft since the House and yard were built in the 1900's. That would apply to FWD as well of course.

• more often a sheet of ice than snow, caused by a drain the council maintained getting blocked so the water took to flowing down the ramp and freezing. It got cleaned regularly when roads had local council lengthsmen who knew what, where and when to check and maintain things. Then things were "improved" by giving the job to outside contractors who work reactively rather than proactively and only turn up to clear blockages after they happen.

G.Harman

[TMS320]

Tyres only have so much total grip - a vector combination between power/braking and cornering. So if one pair are cornering and the other pair are cornering and powering, something has to give.

The effect is easily seen when drifting go-karts when the power going down defines the corner radius and you're following rather than leading with the front.

Race cars are RWD because 4WD has been banned from most racing.

[boltar]

If one pair are powering and steering (FWD) they're going to lose grip a lot sooner than if they were just doing one or the other (RWD) all other things being equal.

[TMS320]

When dumping the clutch with enough revs, energy in the flywheel gets things started. The numbers show it should be possible to get the wheels spinning from pure engine effort. Assuming no turbo lag or electronic limiting.

That's it: one normally backs off. But also, one doesn't normally mash hard down after starting from a controlled roll.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

But why should you have to control them? Modern cars just go where you ask them.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Well we could go back even further and all use a horse and cart. But when new better technology is invented, we should make use of it.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

I can assure you it works with older autos. My 1988 Range Rover would let you rev it in N then chuck it into D. 4 wheel wheelspin in the dry. 3.5 litre V8 though.

Doubtful as I destroyed it along with the idiot tractor that turned in front of me when I was doing 80 on a country road in 2002.

[James Wilkinson Sword]

Really? Got another engine at the back do they? How much do you think an engine weighs?

Slightly.

Best car I had for going uphill in snow was my VW Golf auto. Wide tyres which didn't sink in the snow, and if I couldn't get grip, I could just floor it and the auto box would let me spin the wheels up to over 100mph while the car actually went about 5 or 10, throwing clouds of snow everywhere and making a nice track for everyone behind me.

[TMS320]

Define "steering" as a separate force.

I don't expect go-carts would be much fun if front wheel drive but front and rear drive seem to mix together in the touring car championship.

[boltar]

Thats the quickest way to f*ck an auto box.

The idiot who probably didn't think anyone would be daft enough to do 80 on a country lane you mean?

[boltar]

Yes really. Google it. Most engines weight a few hundred kilos, not a huge amount compared to the weight of a car. A rear axle isn't exactly light.

[boltar]

Huh? Why do you think a car turns if there's no force to make it do so? The force comes from the tyres on the road you muppet.

RWD cars in touring cars have a weight penalty - ie a lump of concrete or similar in the boot. Otherwise they'd walk it.

[The Natural Philosopher]

...someone who has clearly never removed a back axle or an engine in his whole life

[James Wilkinson Sword]

I'd bought the car for =A3300. And I've never managed to break an auto.=

80 isn't much more than 60. And I said road not lane. Besides, he shou= ld have seen me when he pulled out in front of me (which is why I was ov= ertaking in the first place). At that point he could have seen what spe= ed I was going.

-- =

The only substitute for good manners is fast reflexes.

[boltar]

So which part of "most engines weigh a few hundred kilos" was incorrect? Oh wait, you're a yank, you don't have a clue what a kilo is do you?