Square D electrical panel question

So rearranging your house is a bugger then. No thanks.

Oh deary deary me. Just look where you're going perhaps?

Do you know what I love doing in supermarkets when they put yellow signs up saying "danger wet floor"? Fall over them. It really confuses the health and softy morons.

So if more than one of you wants a cup, or you want a large mug of coffee, you have to wait 5 minutes? That is unacceptable.

Good enough to maintain a room temperature, but useless for heating one up in under a decade, or drying out something very wet.

Which doesn't protect the meter. Mind you, it would make it harder to steal electricity.

I had to look that up, and got this image:

formatting link

Although ours don't look like that, those ones are cheap shit you get on campsites, ours do heat the water with electricity, in a box on the wall. Why would you think that was dangerous?

Now you see that's convenience not safety.

Reply to
Mr Macaw
Loading thread data ...

Actually lots of "tea kettles" "coffee pots" and "coffee makers" here in Canada. Indo recall not that many years ago friends from the USA buying tea kettles here and taking them home with them because they were not readilly available at home. I've seen them for sale in the USA when we've been down in recent years.

Everyone knows why. Same reason we pay a bit more (taxes) here in Canada. As the level of "socialism" goes up, so do the taxes. You choose the level you are comfortable with and pay accordingly.

Reply to
clare

Up here in "the north" you don't need trees to take down wires in ice storms. When the wire is 2 1/2 inches in diameter from ice buildup, it doesn't take much to snap the wires (or even the poles if a good wing comes up) One reason much of our "secondary" distribution is underground - along with many of the distribution transformers.

Reply to
clare

They were awarded a huge amount (2.68 million, i believe), but McDonalds appealed and the payment was significantly reduced, with the woman eventually recieving $640,000.

Reply to
clare

Which is an outlet wiring problem. The tester is checing the connection between neutral and ground. Y&our ground wire is loose, disconnected, or broken on the circuit to that outlet. NO chance moving the ground would solve that problem.

Reply to
clare

They DO exist, but are very uncommon.

Reply to
clare

That would definitely be true if all Britts had as little regard for code, the rule of law and safe electrical practices as Macaw does.

There are a lot of "bodgers" in the UK - and the competency of many of them leaves a whole lot to be desired. In the UK, Mc Guyver would be an absolute genius.

Reply to
clare

Based on my "inability to let go" experience while in the USCG, I don't think I agree with this statement:

"...with direct current, there is only a feeling of shock when the circuit is made or broken. While the contact is maintained, there is no sensation of shock."

I was learning how to work on power supplies using a "training device" while attending the USCG electronics school. The training device was a microwave sized 300VDC power supply which was set up to easily accept failed components that the students had to find via systematic trouble shooting steps. It was basically an open box so that all the components were in full view. It weighed in at about 35 lbs.

One of the troubleshooting steps was to remove the built in load from the power supply to see if the symptoms changed. The proper way to remove the load was to shut down the power supply, remove a jumper - a short cable with banana plugs on both ends - and then turn the power supply back on.

I was a cocky kid and to save time I figured I would just grab the jumper in the middle of the loop and just yank it out. Unfortunately, the load side of the jumper came out, but the supply side stayed in. I had my left forearm resting on the case and the open end of the jumper came in contact with my hand. (4 decades later and the scars are still very visible). At that point my arm became the load for the 300VDC supply and my brain did not like it. I couldn't move my left arm so my brain told my right arm to push the case away. As soon as my right arm touched the case, I was stuck. I grabbed the 35 lb unit and lifted it right off the table screaming "Turn it off! Turn it off!" I absolutely could not let go and I absolutely felt the electricity flowing through my arms and chest. It was no "feeling of warmth", it was in every way the "sensation of shock".

The lab was set up like a classroom and when I started yelling the guy in front of me turned around and grabbed the power cord to pull it out of the power strip on my table. Unfortunately, the power strip just came up with the cord. The guy next to him slammed the power strip back down to the table and the cord came out. Once the current stopped flowing through my chest, I literally threw the power supply down onto the table. Man, was I pissed.

They took me to the infirmary and did the whole EKG thing. It turned out that I was OK, other than being pretty shook up and having some bad burns on both hands. When I went back to class the next day, a couple of things had changed:

1 - 2 guys quit electronics school after seeing what happened to me. 2 - All the power strips had been screwed down to the tables. :-)

Anyway, bottom line is that I do not agree that with DC there is "no sensation of shock" while contact is maintained.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

The Birdman is an idiot. Just reading some of the stuff he says in this thread should make me laugh, but it's just so, so sad.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

But totally different than an AC shock. You had the muscle clench but it's totally different from AC.

Reply to
clare

Seeing the ground bar not appear to connect to a ground wire... makes me wonder if the ground bar is isolated, and therefore not effective.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

i MOSTLY see them in APARTMENTS. Oddly ENOUGH, some PEOPLE think that 220 VAC is CHEAPER, but in the USA we pay for WATTS, which is equal for SIMILAR equipment usage.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I only see the idiot's posts when someone replies to him. He's definitely a barmy git who's totally lost the plot, as they say

- and as daft as a bush to boot. - a real wazzock fer sure.

Reply to
clare

The lines I object to are not related to the muscle clench. I specifically quoted the lines related to no sensation of shock while contact is maintained. The article says that no shock will be felt and I sure as hell felt the shock during the entire time I maintained contact. Up one arm, across my chest and back down the other arm.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

I've had ac and dc shocks - and I will say for the same voltage/current capacity, AC hurts one hell of a lot more than DC. DC hurts like hell when you get hit, and again when you get off of it. In between there is pain - but mostly due to constant muscle contraction

- and there is heat.

With AC it just plain hurts like hell - period.. Along with the pain is the continuous pulsing of the muscle contractions - with 50 or 60 hz AC - a bit different with 400 or higher frequency - and even worse with something like 25 hz. Lets just say it "hertz"

Reply to
clare

ailing socket, and it was wired backwards (earlier on, not by me), so when I'd switched it off, I'd disconnected the neutral and not the live. Hence I got 240V through my hand from live to earth. All it did was warm up my h and. I let go very easily.

It also doesn't make sense as written. Volunteers could only tolerate it f or a few seconds? How long does it take to let go?

continuously until you remove it.

Agree, been there, done that too.

Reply to
trader_4

Back to the main panel disconnect question.

My house always had the meter outside and the main panel inside, with the main disconnect on the panel.

When an upgrade was done to the main panel, an extra breaker was added outside just below the meter. The electrician said this was a code requirement, because wire between the meter and the panel needed to be protected because of the location.

Did this new breaker now become the service disconnect? And if so, is the main panel now noncompliant for having ground and neutral bonded?

Reply to
TimR

I've lived in a lot of houses and never had the need to rearrange where a 240V appliance was. The only typical appliances like that which are on receptacles are electric dryers and stoves/ovens/ranges. Never seen the need to put the dryer or stove in a different spot. And if I did, the dryer is almost always right next to the washer. The washer needs water lines, a drain. The dryer needs a vent to the outside. Don't the ones in the UK vent outside? I'm just not feeling the need to be able to plug my dryer in anywere in the house. And a lot of people have gas dryers too. Should we put gas outlets all through the house too, in case someone wants to dry their clothes in the living room, while they fire up their turkey fryer there too?

It doesn't take 5 mins to do a cup at 120V. I can do a liter in a little more than that. If you really want it fast, we have instant hot water dispensers that you can install under the sink. They have a tank, ~ 1/2 gal, that is constantly hot. I stated previously that I agree having 240V for that would be nice, it would cut down the time. But I think you're way over doing how important it is.

Please. It doesn't take a decade to heat up a room. Also, as pointed out previously, few people use them that way. We mostly have central heat. Some people, not many thought, use them to supplement that in one room, so they can keep the rest of the house set lower.

I agree with that part. I assumed what you meant was an on demand, point-of-use type water heater. They are safe, as long as they are correctly installed.

It's both. Unless you think having an electric fryer, electric kettle, etc on cords running God knows where, that can be tripped over, run to a non-GFCI outlet, etc is safe. And "convenience" is a stretch. I'd say it's "functionality" and safety.

Reply to
trader_4

And there were extenuating circumstances too. The plaintiff showed that McDonalds knew for a long time that their coffee was far hotter than coffee at similar places, dangerously hot, etc and did nothing about it. It was so hot that it melted the nylon the woman was wearing, as I recall.

Reply to
trader_4

Reading through your description again, that's possible. From what you posted, the neutral is tied to earth ground at the panel, or appears to be anyway. The ground bar is a separate bar, but should be tied to the neutral bar. How that is done probably varies from panel to panel and it's optional, because in a subpanel, they are kept separate.

Reply to
trader_4

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.