Sawstop - probably a stupid question

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Leon wrote:

Those "cures" require a tremendous amount of cutting edge research and then elaborate clinical trials and an extensive government approval process. The Sawstop has already been demonstrated, and the only thing the government wants to know about it is how much tax the manufacturer owes.

So, you admit that the Sawstop is so flawed that it is going to take years of research to make it work adequately if in fact it can be made to do so? If not, then what _are_ you suggesting?
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In

It seems to me that he is saying that some things, no matter how simple they appear, may take longer to develop than something that appears 1000 times more complicated. Such is the case with Apple computer...he faced no opposition, no competition, no corporate behemoth, etc.
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Ted Harris
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I don't see this as being a valid analogy. Computers existed before the Apple. IBM existed before the apple. Where is the corporate behemoth that is squashing sawstop? It is, like most analogies, false.
-j
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Ayup. Remember the IBM 5100? Nifty little portable computer (very small screen) with rom-based basic and APL interpreters. Predated even the Apple II.
scott
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No actually many do not. Many are widely available in other countries. The government slows this process down. I could never figure how the FDA can claim that it is protecting us from buying the same drug in Canada that we buy in the U.S.

Nope that is what you said. I made no such statement. I simply think that some things take longer to bring to market because of lack of funds to speed the process or the government impedes the progress.
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Leon wrote:

One word. Thalidomide.

Well, now, what specific action do you believe that the government has taken to "impede the progress" of sawstop and how is it that a couple of college dropouts managed to raise enough capital to get their company started when Mr. Smart Patent Attorney can't?
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I have not really thought about it and have no reason to think that they have in this instance. but it is entirely possible.
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Leon wrote:

So what _is_ your explanation for the delay?
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What delay? I have no explanation as I do not know much about the company. As you also do not. As far as every one knows, they may be right on schedule. The first time I saw a Bosch 1617EVS at a tool show was in 1996 IIRC. I was unable to buy it until August of 1998. Bosch, an old company took 2 years to make available a product that they were showing. For a start up company it some time takes many years for the ptoduct to come in to being. I just think you have a "Hard-On" against the Saw Stop and do not know it. You fight it with unreasonable resistance.

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In typed:

Steve Jobs had no one fighting him tootj and nail. I'd like to see someone try to do what he has done today, in a developed computer world. Your argumnent is quite simply not apples to apples...
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Neither does SawStop. The existing manufacturers declined to use that product; that is not the same as "fighting tooth and nail" to prevent it coming to market.
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Doug Miller wrote:

Further, there is an almost exact parallel. The Apple prototype was constructed after hours in HP's laboratories. When it was complete, the two Steves went to their supervisor with it, demonstrated it, and asked if this was a product that HP wanted to market. After going through whatever process they go through, HP decided that it wasn't and granted the two Steves a waiver of any rights that they had to it, at which point they started their own company to sell the thing and the rest is history.
So HP was "fighting tooth and nail" just as hard as Delta and Jet are fighting against Sawstop.

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wrote:

Strangely enough, HP made _exactly_the_same_ blunder a few years later, when a couple of their engineers, Jimmy Treybig and one other guy whose name escapes me, came to management with an idea for a fault-tolerant computer. Management wasn't interested, so they quit and formed their own company, Tandem Computers, and made a pot of money selling machines that simply don't go down.
In an odd twist of fate, Tandem was bought in the late 1990s by Compaq, which was then bought a few years later by... HP.
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Doug Miller wrote:

Wasn't really a blunder. Even Jobs admits that at the time it wasn't a good match for HP's marketing model. Remember, HP was an instrumentation company with computers a sideline.

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Shall we talk about Dell, or Compaq? Or Extreme Networks and Brocade?
Or Egenera? Fabric 7?
all examples of companies starting in the face of entrenched competitors but with differentiated product. Most would argue that they were and are successful at it.
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Actually Apple would be like the Commodore had Microsoft not bought it. Gone. Apple did fine until it had competition. Steve Jobs fallacy was his insisting that Apple manufacture everything including the software. It was simply out paced by the enormous number of other choices.
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Leon wrote:

Bought _what_? Microsoft owns neither Commodore nor Apple so what the Hell are you talking about?

Apple had competition on the day that they sold their first machine. Intel-based S-100 micros were already well established in the market--Apple with their 6502 was fighting the trend. Successfully. Wasn't until IBM came in that Apple ran into a serious competitor, but they've managed to maintain market share right along.

Apple still manufactures everything including much of the software. Seems that that strategy actually worked pretty well.
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Ok, the giant bail out. Apple would probably be gone had Microoft not dumped millions into Apple.

No they lost market share. Their share is squat compared to what it was before the PC came along.

No, there is now hardware and software available for an Apple not produced by Apple.
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Leon responds:

I think these days almost all the Mac software is from outside, with the OS being the main Apple software product. But I could be wrong. My Mac languishes in a corner.
Charlie Self "Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power." Eric Hoffer
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If you go to Apple's web site and do a search for Microsoft you get tons of hits. Apparently Microsoft Office is a product Apple is pushing to run on the Apple.
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