Ridgid Clearance Prices at the Borg

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So you don't work for a union, yet you get the same benefits as a union worker, eh? Unions WERE beneficial YEARS ago. Since then, LAWS have been enacted to provide the protection once offered by unions. So what do unions offer now? Follow the links I've posted previously. Unions are a big part of work being sent overseas. Bully a manufacturer, charge an unreasonable amount, and they'll take their business elsewhere. Tell me you'd do otherwise as a manufacturer when you see your profits dropping each time the union whines.
I work with several different contractors on a daily basis. Many are union. They spent their days whining, avoiding work, getting paid too much, and generally ripping off the company that pays them. I'm not saying ALL unions are like this, just MOST of the ones "I've" ever worked with in my past 20 years in the aerospace industry. UPS is union too, but their delivery guys bust tail all day. Our shipping department obviously has a better union rep as they do a fraction of the work in a week that a UPS guy does in an hour (and they still bitch). Oh, our plumbers are also union. We usually pass them in the 50mph zone.. they're easy to spot... they're going 20mph and taking all the back roads for hours.

Yes, if it wasn't for the ACLU, we'd still be worrying about the Spanish Inquisition. Sheesh!
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Robert wrote:

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
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Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
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snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net says...

Our chief weapon is fear. Fear and surprise. Surprise and fear. Our TWO chief weapons are...
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Thank you, Cardinal Ximinez.
-------------------------------------------------------------------- The more we gripe, * http://www.diversify.com/stees.html the longer God makes us live. * Graphic Design - Humorous T-shirts
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Eric Anderson wrote:

It _is_ a problem, and it's systemic. I don't have an answer either.
In my line of work, I'm watching it happen directly. It sucks to see people for the last time, knowing that they're all about to be unemployed.
There just isn't any way around it though, when there are people desperate enough to work for pennies a day. We haven't really gotten rid of slavery. We've just moved it off-shore.
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Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
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you should read the latest issue from national geographic on child slavery around the world.
http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0309/features.html
regards, charlie cave creek, az
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On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:03:20 -0700, "Charlie Spitzer"

There is some of the reasons for the unrest and violence around the world. I'm certainly not condoning it, but it needs to be better explained and understood.
tt
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snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net says...

I agree with most of what is said above, but that last bit is nonsense. What would be poverty-level wages in the US are wonderfully good wages in, for example, sub-Saharan Africa. If creating jobs in such places amounts to exporting slavery, then most of the "slaves" seem to be saying: bring it on. They could use a little more "slavery"...
For example: http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id 34
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So, the solution to starving, diseased and dying people is, give them just enough to live, but not to live decently? Or to expect any of the things we take for granted? I thought that we, as a people, were better than that.
tt
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On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 00:08:16 GMT, Brian Henderson

What I am saying is, we should not be taking advantage of people who have next to nothing, and continue to exploit them, just so we can save a couple of dollars on the goods we buy. Their children are not in schools, they are working in the factory with their families, because their are no labor laws, and paerents aren't paid enough to support a family. There are still very few doctors, no dentists, and no retirement system, besides working until you die. The price of goods ought to include the realistic price of producing them, and using coerced labor should not be part of that equation.
This is the same argument that was used to defend slavery. "Sure, we don't pay them anything, they have no education, and the barest of benefits to keep them from dying, but imagine where they would be without our help!"
We can do better, and should.
tt
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On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 01:30:50 GMT, Test Tickle

And what I'm saying is the only one who seems to be complaining is you. The people who actually have jobs aren't whining about being mistreated. They're THANKFUL! So who the hell are you to tell these people who are HAPPY to be making enough money to put food on the table that somehow they're wrong?
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Rick Chamberlain responds:

It isn't the doctor's insurance company. The patient is the insured person who pays the premiums.

Then 'splain this to me: if you have no insurance, your hospital, and doctor, fees range from 3 to 5 times as much as do those charged the insurance companies for the same procedures?
Charlie Self
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." Sir Winston Churchill
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Not always. Some years ago I got caught with no insurance and my wife needed surgery. Doctor cut his fee to 1/3 of normal. Hospital took 10% of what the insurance would have been billed.
My son has a business that supplies medical equipment. He takes what the insurance or Medicare pays. If not covered, he will often supply equipment for cost, sometimes even less. Ed
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Edwin Pawlowski responds:

I never seem to run into those types when I'm without insurance. I paid almost $9000 total for knee surgery that insurance companies paid $2500 or less for. The next time I need hospitalization, I insisted the rescue squad take me nearly 30 miles out of the way to a hospital that didn't belong to that group.
My mother was an RN, and I grew up with a lot of respect for the medical profession in general. In the past 2 decades, that respect has just about disappeared.
Charlie Self
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." Sir Winston Churchill
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.combleah says...

You're right. But the doctors CHOOSE which insurance carriers they deal with. They are not obligated to accept all carriers. I had to change eye doctors because my doctor chose to not accept my carrier anymore.

I don't know - maybe because they can only hope to recover a third through collections?
I'm not sure what that has to do with my point about doctors being forced to take what the insurance companies pay out.
Rick
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Rick Chamberlain wrote:

The point is that insurance companies, representing large numbers of patients, have negotiating power and can set the reimbursable allowances as low as the market will bear. A single patient who is stricken by some random accident or illness has no real negotiating power.
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George babbles:

Uh, what does taxing the rich have to do with ANY of this? Nor did you explain how the cut-rate deals are possible.
I already agreed with your conclusion, I am just confused by your diatribe preceding it.
Charlie Self
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." Sir Winston Churchill
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Gotta make a couple of connections, I guess. Involves some Econ 050 realities to which you, as a self, and oft-professed "liberal" my not be privy.
If service is provided gratis to some, but has actual cost for all, there must be some method for recouping the difference. You can't recoup it from those with whom you have a contract to deliver for a price, you can't turn away the poor, so you have only one place to go. Is that clear enough? In government, of course, you extract the difference from those who have the highest dollar to vote ratio - taxing the rich - but you can't do it here, so you resort to other sleight-of hand.
For instance, the medical types try to keep the costs to non-insured people down (or hidden) by performing the limit of procedures and tests allowed by insurance on those with it. The ED is a great place to see dollars whisked away. If nursing and physician care were billed elsewhere at ED rates, well, there would be no way for anyone to pay. Vehicular trauma is a great place to get money, because everybody has to have auto insurance. But, if you're beginning to make the connection you should have made before, you'll know that someone must pay for this as well, at a higher rate than the actual value of service.
Now, to address _your_ petulant babbling, the "deals" are a fraud, just like the manufacturers' suggested retail price of tools. What's collected is the value, the rest is a price. Whenever I see hospitals complaining that insurance companies or the Feds don't cover the actual cost of service, I ask myself why hospitals, at least in our area, don't self-insure, but buy health plans. If you'd like to think, ponder that one.

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Rick Chamberlain responds:

OK. You mean Stanley wouldn't move off-shore, nor would Black & Decker, among just a couple?
There are no unions where these companies go, but the rate of pay offered to locals is so much higher than the going rate for anyone, the local people win nicely, the company stockholders get their huge increases, and the prices remain steady, while the American worker is screwed.
Again. Read up on the history of the labor movement.
Charlie Self
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." Sir Winston Churchill
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On 24 Aug 2003 13:22:55 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.combleah (Charlie Self) wrote:

Nothing is stopping these companies from moving off-shore now. They can fire all of their union or non-union workers and close their factories. Nobody can say a damn thing about it either.
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