Pass You Eye! Assembled Table Pics

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On Saturday, September 26, 2015 at 5:25:08 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:

Well now Karl... if that happened the people pissing on one another might n ot have any excuse when they splash on someone else. How many of these thr eads are derailed because someone gets butt hurt because they thought someo ne was doubting their expertise, then only to find that lost in pages of co mmentary the offensive comments weren't aimed at them, or may not even be t aken in context?
It certainly hasn't escaped the old hands here (including those that abando ned ship long ago) that the longest threads have nothing to do with woodwor king. The most active and longest threads are always people fighting with one another about their personal opinions.
Robert
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On 9/27/2015 1:43 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

The Bennett wars were certainly epic ... even got caught in the crossfire myself.
TMITD another.
Kinda miss BAD, and Apeman ... ;)
And damn, I really miss Robatoy.
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On Monday, September 28, 2015 at 6:45:25 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote: The Bennett wars were certainly epic ... even got caught in the

Sigh... yep. Good 'ol Roberto. Loved to stir the pot, but was a fountain of great information. I miss his wit.
Robert
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On 9/29/2015 12:48 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

You know all this Festool stuff can be traced right back to him. ;~) I recall him pointing me to a European YouTube video showing their new Domino being used by their tradesmen a year or two before they were available here.
I'm quite certain Festool was here long before that as Robert/Robatoy could never say enough about the Rotex sander that he used to sand and polish his counter tops.. IIRC he was on his second one.
He was my pusher that helped me see the light.
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On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 8:47:50 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

Doing the work I do, we had some entertaining conversations about buying th e Fein oscillating tool. He had one that he bought after much consideratio n, and he loved it. I never could justify the tool (15 - 20 years ago blad es were still $25 each on average) and he couldn't see how I could live wit hout it. He used his constantly. After I bought my first inexpensive model , I couldn't either.
Then we had a some great conversation and there was a lot of consternation about the great biscuit debate that swelled up here on occasion. He used a Lamello A LOT, and he was the only one I knew that used the absolute daylig hts out of a biscuit machine at that time. He used them to align and join some of his work where connectors couldn't be used. Until Rob described it (and was actually doing it regularly) I would never have thought of joinin g two perpendicular surfaces with biscuits. Like me, he found through pract ical experience the biscuit added a great deal to certain types of joinery.
He was the first one I knew that had a 23ga. pinner. Honestly, with no hea ds on the pins I had difficult figuring out what to do with one of those, e ven if I had one. He was applying different moldings, finishing pieces and all other kinds of appliques to work on occasion and he gave the run down on it. He had a Grex (sp?) long before they even sold them down here.
I don't know how he did it, but he always seem to be right on top of any ki nd of tool innovations, especially those with any value. I too remember hi s delight with the Rotex sander, and being a champion of that tool. I used a Bosch sander at that time that was 90% of the Festool for 20% of the pri ce. I had to have a shop vac attached to mine to sand inside an occupied h ome and got a little dust, and he had the Festool with a shop vac (don't re call it being a Festool, but some other Euro brand)and got no dust. I reme mber that he used the Rotex long and hard enough to actually kill it, and h e was kind of pleased with himself for that.
Gone too soon...
Robert
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On 9/29/2015 9:54 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I don't think it was that long ago, I bought a 3 Pack for $72 in 2006. Anyway thank goodness that the patent ran out and competition brought the prices down.

I started using biscuits in 1989. I gutted and rebuilt the kitchen in our other home and used what I thought to be a load of biscuits. I recall buying #20's in boxes of a thousand a couple of times. Thinking of today, I am on the verge of buying my 3rd box of 5mm 1,800 count Dominoes and I am about in the middle of a 6mm replacement box.

Karl turned me on the the 23 gauge pinner. I bought a Grex about 7~8 years ago. I love that thing and use it more often than I expected. IIRC it came with 1,000 pins in each size/length that it would shoot. I have bought 3 replacement boxes of 10K in different lengths. They are great at replacing a clamp on light glue ups.

That he was!
I too

IIRC a Fein
In 2008 I refaced a neighbors kitchen. I cut my own 1/8" thick maple veneer for the cabinets and built the maple doors. He was retired and at home when I came back to sand the joints of the veneer. I used my a pinner to hold the veneers while the glue dried, regular wood glue not contact cement. Anyway before I got there he had masked off all the cabinet openings with newspaper, card board, and tape. He said he would wipe the counters down and mop after I sanded. I sanded with the Rotex and with the FT finish sander along with the FT vac while he took a nap. I was finished long before his hour nap was over and he could not believe that there was no visible dust.
I remember that he used the

Truly

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On 9/25/2015 1:26 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

> unrelated to Sonny's fine table and great work.

It's how newsgroups work. Interesting threads evolve into other interesting threads that evolve into controversial threads that evolve into pissing contests that eventually die.
The best thing to do when you lose interest is to ignore the thread and go to another one that interests you. The worst thing to do is participate in a thread that no longer interests you.
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Jack
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On 9/25/2015 12:49 PM, krw wrote:

Idiot.
I observed no one using Festools on work sites. Since I don't spend my life observing work sites, I asked people who do spend all their work time at job sites. This added to my observation. Next, another guy that does spend his workday on job sites, in another part of the country, also noticed no one using Festools. This also added weight to my observations.. Next, the number one promoter of Festools on this site, stated his guess is 1 in 200 professionals use Festools. I don't put much weight in that, as it is at best an assumption, or guess, but his opinion is valuable, based on his experience. My guess would be more like 1 in 50, maybe 1 in 100, but that is only based on a guess. I'm reasonably certain that there use is much less common that other quality, yet much cheaper tools.

I'm sorry, I guess I should pay more attention to what you, a hobbyist that can't cut a straight line, and an idiot, has to say on the subject than my first hand observations along with comments from seasoned professionals that do this stuff for a living. My bad.

Yes, by continuing to discuss this with an idiot. I'll try to button up and ignore your rambling, senseless, and often caustic babble.
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OK, it's unanimous, you're an idiot.

A whole ten of them. You didn't even bother to sample in more than one location. Even the political surveys do a better job.

From ten people, you *jumped* to the conclusion that Festool was only used by hobbyists. That is *really* dumb. Stupid, in fact.

I really didn't expect you to be smart enough to be able to read. I'm not at all surprised.

Indeed I am continuing to discuss this with a total idiot. ...too damn dumb to even see how stupid his argument is. ...and digging ever deeper.
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On 9/20/2015 10:34 AM, Leon wrote:

True, but then that's why I asked a bunch of guys that spend their entire working life of job sites what they use, and none, not one, used Festools, and a surprising number didn't know they existed.
I have never seen a

I've seen all those brand name tools on job sites. Just not Festool.
If a tree falls in the middle of

Very true. That's why I took the time to ask around last time we had this discussion. Also, I noted that Nailshooter also never saw anyone other than you and Swing use them. This certainly does not mean no one uses them, but it means considerably more than squat.

I believe you. I suspect, based on what I've seen, and what Nailshooter has seen, and on my small survey, that the sitings are underwhelming.

Well your wrong about that. I'm the only hobbyist I'm around. I am around lots of people in the trades, just no hobbyists.
We who earn a pay

I've earned money working with my tools, just that it was never my primary source of income. The folks I asked earn their living solely working in the trades.

Not to get picky, but I never talked to you, or Swing. I know a few on this group use Festools. The fact, and it is a fact, that I've never witnessed anyone, other than on TV, using Festools, and 0 "ZERO" percent of the guys I've personally questioned on the subject use Festools means more than "squat", at least to me.
I'm not so "stubborn" to think this means NO ONE uses Festools.
I am too "stubborn" to think you need Festools to build quality furniture, bathrooms, kitchens or even to cut a straight line or suck up some dust.
Also I'm too "stubborn" to think Festool is the only quality tool out there, plenty of high quality tools out there at cheaper prices, and I've seen all of them on job sites, just not Festool.
Rather than "stubborn", I'd prefer to call it experience, but I can live with stubborn.
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On 9/21/2015 9:36 AM, Jack wrote:

Jack I suspect that it is going to take a particular type pro that wants exacting standards to find one that works on location and might benefit from using Festool. If you remember Robatoy, he was one of those guys. I really did not know this caliber of tool was available until he brought my attention to it. FWIW most trades guys, especially down her in the south, are immigrants that were simply looking for a job before becoming a carpenter. They simply use the cheapest available equipment and then use a lot of caulk to hide the imperfections.
And some of the guys on the job are not looking for better, they simply want to do it they way they have always done it.
Anyway I would venture to say Tommy Silva uses Festool.

I have see all of these brands too, just not those particular type tools in the brands listed.

You also have to understand that crews are less likely to use the expensive tools vs. an individual.
AAMOF there are plenty of "pro's" on YouTube that demonstrate their work truck set ups and you do see plenty of Festool on those locations, shops and trucks.
If you go to the Festool web site there are plenty of pro's that have video's too.

That is absolutely true but it is so much easier and more efficient with these tools.

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On Monday, September 21, 2015 at 9:36:34 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:


If I were the only one using my tools and they didn't get pretty rough trea tment sometimes I would consider Festool. 40 years ago, my fellow wood cho ppers were horrified that I spent $95 on a genuine Milwaukee "Hole Shooter" , when a perfectly serviceable commercial grade Porter Cable (when they wer e worth having) drill could be had for $60. It runs to this day, and only missed a few days of work when I wore out the trigger. Before screw guns, before impact drivers, or anything else that drove screws as a dedicated to ol, we had VSR drills to use, and that was mine.
I bought the very best I could at the time and it turned out to be a great choice. Repeat the same scenario with my first heavy duty circular. Getti ng away from those old Porter Cable saws of the day was a blessing in its s elf.
But in those days, I used the tools myself and carpenters were expected to buy their own tools. Now, carpenters/workers have a few tools, usually rea l crap, and they expect to use or at least borrow yours. I hate it, but it is the nature of the beast. Then of course, there are the guys that borro w and "didn't remember to bring it back". Another scenario is that like me , you leave tools behind to go check on other work as a supervisor, not wor king as a full time, dedicated site guy sent to do a specific job. Guys co me and go when you aren't there, and so do your tools.
Lsst, the thing that bothers me the most is the guys don't take care of the tools. No just mine, some of them not even their own. So it doesn't make sense to use tools that will be stolen, abused or misplaced. The guys that are o ut on the job today were raised in a disposable society, and they think of tools as just that. I haven't worked with carpenters in years that can sha rpen a chisel on site, regrind the head of a Phillips screwdriver or bit, k now how to adjust a framing square to true, or have the "hand" to cut a scr ibed line with a circular saw that needs no trim to cover it. I am afraid those days are gone.


Yep. And based on what I posted above, you can see why. If I had a Festoo l drill that cost $500 and left it on site while I went to another job, and the guy I left it with found it gone when he got back from taking a whiz, I would be undone. Same if I heard the "it was an accident" story when it was knocked off the scaffold. Accidents always happen, but I have noticed they seem to happen a lot more with my tools than they do with theirs.
Robert
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No, stuff sells for what it's worth. It really is that simple. If you don't believe that, you need to go back to Economics 101.

Your opinion is wrong, of course. I may have a few Festools but it's not because they're expensive. Most users are *not* hobbyists. Clearly if they were meant for hobbyists there wouldn't be the big emphasis on the Systainer system. They're just another case to me, and not as good as a good blow-mold case at that.

Since you've never used Festools, your opinion isn't worth more than the hot air it is. The fact is that you're wrong.
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On 9/18/2015 2:17 PM, krw wrote:

Of course, because you say so right? I actually took the time to ask a bunch of people in the business, and not one, not ONE used Festools. Some didn't even know what they were, and it's what they do for a living. Others simple said they are far too expensive. For a closer view, here is what one of our own (nailshooter) just said:
"Agreeing with you Karl, finding he exact fit of price/utility/performance is the real key to what a tool is worth. Excepting you and Leon whom I know both use your Festool(s)extensively and constantly, _I know of no one else that does._"

And what exactly is your profession, or are you a hobbyist?

I've been using tools my entire life, been woodworking for going on 60 years. I know good tools, junk tools, and overpriced tools. Why is it only Festool owners get their panties in a bunch when someone doesn't get on their knees at the mention of their beloved Festool? If you don't trust my answer, you could email Festool marketing dept, I'm sure they could tell you.
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You've been told why but would rather stick with your delusions.

And you know at least two here who do.

Yes, if you'd read this thread you would have known that.

So you admit that you're talking through your ass WRT Festool. OK, we got it.
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says...

A reponse worthy of any Presidential candidate. (Note that that is not praise)

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On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 06:06:55 -0400, "J. Clarke"

Are you really dumb enough to believe that Presidential candidates tell us the facts?

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says...

Drink your coffee, let it hit, then reread the paragraph to which you responded and the one before it.
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On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 10:48:11 -0400, "J. Clarke"

I suggest you do the same, except this time use more brain and less chip, if you're able.
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says...

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