Coors beer was marketed out west as a cheap beer. They were on the
verge of bankruptcy when they re-labled the beer as a premium, raised
the price and the exact same beer became popular, and was soon marketed
across the country.
I call this the Coors effect, and I think for this group, you could call
it the Festool effect.
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
OK, I have been away for a few days and have to confess that I was wondering how our table turned out.
What a nice piece of art you turned out, Sonny. Not a remote chance that would turn up at the hunting camp... not one. That is gorgeous and deserves to be a center piece of someone's home. Probably a pretty good sized home... :^)
FWIW Festools stand the test of time.
What he thinks appears to be cheaply or marginally made does not
indicate a lack of durability or quality.
I bought my wife a Ricar America vacuum cleaner. Expensive and appears
to be cheaply made. I bought that in 1991. that thing still performs
like it was new and most manufacturers have copied the concept.
he does seem to know all the correct terminology and seems to know
his way around pretty well
that is something many cheaper tools take shortcuts on for sure
planned obsolence is the fancy word for garbage
he could do better by doing side-by-side comparisons but i think he had
some good points
but what does festool care if they sell product
it does ring a bit of the seagram's effect but pricing is quite a tricky thing
never hear of it but will have to see a tear down of that one
i have had a hoover forever
it sucks up dirt fine but it is loud loud loud
Seems is correct. I would suggest that the parts he focused on don't
need to be as toughly built as he leads you to believe.
Anyway IIRC Festool was one of the first to have a track saw and IIRC
some 40 years ago.
Well for some people a cheaply made tool is a better choice. There is
value in a less expensive tool that gets the job done and floats around
a work crew that may not appreciate the cost of buying tools. If it
breaks or gets left in the rain or is left and lost it is more easily
replaced. On the flip side the guy that purchases and uses the tools
himself will almost always find better value in a more expensive better
Maybe, I don't recall which of the two sizes he was taking apart, I and
Swingman both own the larger of the two saws and I can probably speak
for him that neither of us have any problems or regret the purchase.
And again, these saws have been around for decades and still have one of
the best warranties in the industry. What we think matters may not
matter at all.
Being German designed and manufactured in Germany with quality parts
probably has a lot more to do with pricing than the illusion of better.
Festool has been around for a relative long time and sold mostly to
the trades. They were not inexpensive then nor now. I don't believe
that their pricing is a recent scheme.
You mostly see Ricar vacuum cleaners at dealer and repair shops that
mostly sell to cleaning companies. It is a commercial machine.
The real beauty is that it is quiet compared to others and is very light
weight. Probably 10~15 lbs.
I went into my local vac shop on the early 90's shopping for me. I
request was that the machine keeps what it runs over, namely pennies and
dimes, paper clips. etc. It does that very well, most would rattle the
debris and throw it back out somewhere else. If yu run over something
you better have intended to do so.
At the time what made this machine different is that the debris and did
did not go through the motor/suction impeller.
The dirt wen straight from the hose into the bag. The motor/impeller
creates a vacuum inside the air sealed bag chamber. Air goes through
the bag and exits through a foam filter and then through a charcoal
filter and then past the motor/impeller. I'm sure that there are many
made like this now but it was pretty unique 25 years ago.
Another example of an item priced high are Honda lawn mowers. I paid
$450 for mine, in the spring of 1987. It is about to complete its 29th
season of cutting. I have changed the spark plug 1 time, air filter, 4
times, and the oil 20+ times. The oil still pours out clean.
The cost of the mower and maintenance, less gas has probably cost me on
average about $20 per season. My neighbors thought I was crazy for
paying double the normal cost for a lawn mower.
Over time, I've come to these conclusions about price:
1. Quality costs money. It's worth spending on something you use
2. Everything has a point where you stop paying for quality and start
paying for a name/marketing.
that is why i think he should do comparison test with the competition
i had considered this and it is true
do not know either but it was $1000
it must matter to some as festool seems to be doing well
it may also reflect the true cost because it is made by people getting
paid western wages
although i recall the bearings were chinese
i got my hoover in the 90's i think and it does this
this is not novel at all
the electrolux horizontal canister did the same from 60's or 70's
it did not have charcoal filters though because we were not so delicate
OK, maybe I misunderstood you. If he compares how the tool performs and
holds up yes. Not by look at this bearing vs that bearing. A bearing,
or what ever, that out lasts the useful life of tool is perfectly fine.
A bearing that "would' out last the tool 3 times over is of no advantage.
It typically meets your expectations, and then some. It is a well
thought out tool that complements and works hand in hand with other
tools in the line up. Dust collection is spectacular.
I would find the bearing being Chinese disputable. I don't doubt that
the guy mentioned or even showed a Chinese bearing but I'm not too sure
the guy was being entirely truthful. Imagine that. ;~)
Some of them are... The OHV motors are better than the OHC motors. The
OHV are commercial grade and "expensive".
My dad traded a 10 year old Honda mower with the OHV motor and I was
shocked that they gave him $200 trade in. He bought the OHC model and I
was not impressed. It has been in the shop for idle issues numerous
times however that is mostly because of the California emissions that
all Hondas have to pass.
I remember that, mostly because Festool does not charge $1000 for that
saw. The bigger corded one is $750.00 including a 75" track and
systainer case. Bought separately the 75" track is $200 and the case is
north of $70.
I find that when someone exaggerates the price this is not all that is
suspect about their comments.
Either way it is a fine saw and system. With its quality of cut it very
well could replace or put off the need to buy a quality TS for cutting.
You know, absolutely not. I have only used it on the track and that
greatly reduces the chance of kick back. That fact along with the fact
that it has a riving knife/splitter that plunges down as you plunge the
blade, no pinching the blade. That said if you must prevent the saw
from moving backwards there is a shoe on board that mounts to the track,
it prevents the saw from moving backwards as you plunge into the surface
of the wood. This is handy when starting a cut from sonewhere other
than the edge/outside of the board/panel.
On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 4:28:12 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Ya know, the more you guys speak of, not just Festool, but their track saw,
the more I think I'd benefit with one. Aside, I suppose I've made my sha
re of snide remarks, jokingly, relating to Festool.
I often use a circular saw and there are times I wish I had something more
convenient for a better job, a better cutting method, more accuracy, etc.,
especially with the work at the farm. I can't conveniently bring a table
saw to the farm, and I'm becoming more convinced the track saw would do won
ders for the ongoing work, there. A circular saw is not always the best s
aw for applications, there, and $750 is economical, in all respects, for th
e farm application. I'd probably leave it there, permanently.
My only hesitancy is with others not taking good care of the tools, as I ta
ke care of them. If I'm not there to watch over them, they'll abuse stuff
.... *if and when they decide to try to do something productive, **for a ch
More rant: A set of decent saw horses, at the farm, would do wonders, also
, and I'm sure would accommodate a track saw. The present saw horses were
made by a nephew and are pitifully inadequate: Poor construction and 20"
tall. What was he thinking?!! Sometimes, the woodworking sense, I try t
o instill in them, just doesn't seem to be getting through. But, at least
his efforts were a try, at saw horseing.
We will help yu remove some of the egg from your face when you buy one. ;~)
Something to consider, the Festool will produce cabinet saw quality
cuts. Do you need that or the accuracy of straight lines? If only the
accuracy of straight lines Grizzly offers a track saw that might be the
answer and take some sting out it being abused.
But if you want top of the line and quality cuts I highly recommend the
Let me add a bit of buying strategy. If you are going to be ripping
sheets of 4x8 plywood you are going to also need to purchase an extra
length of track. The TS55 track saw comes with a 55" track, the TS75
track saw comes with a 75" track. To rip an 8' sheet you will need
about 10' of track. The 75" and the 55" tracks give you almost 11',
and you will need to buy 2 rail connectors, $36.
If you buy a TS55 track saw with 55" rail and add the connectors and a
75" rail you are going to pay $640 for the saw, $36 for the connectors
and $200 for the 75" rail, total $875.
If you buy a TS75 track saw with 75" rail and add the connectors and a
55" rail you are going to pay $750 for the saw, $36 for the connectors
and $129 for the 55" rail, total $915.
With the understanding that the TS55 needs an additional 75" rail and
the TS75 needs and additional 55" rail the difference between the two
saw set ups is only $40 more for the bigger TS 75 saw.
Just something to consider if you are thinking one saw over the other
and will need to make 96" or longer cuts.
The case that comes with the saw is very good and easy to deal with,
take the saw home with you. OTOH they could be abusing a $1500 TS.
Going a bit further, I recently had to replace my, all plastic, Stanley
saw horses. The picture shows my set up for cutting sheet goods with my
track saw and may be the only true example of something none of us
thought was possible, having too many clamps. I ended up buying a set
of Dewalt saw horses that have steel legs and pretty much plastic every
where else. I think you can figure out the set up which worked well
until one of the plastic legs on the saw horse buckled.
Not a real good answer but my first circular saw (Crapsman) couldn't
cut a straight line for anything. I thought it was me but when I
replaced it, even with a just slightly less crappy saw (pre-BORG
Ryobi) the lines all of a sudden got a lot straighter. Those that say
a craftsman never blames his tools has never worked with good tools.
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