Pass You Eye! Assembled Table Pics

[Jack]

Nope. From someone that understands marketing.

[Jack]

Did Festool suddenly change their pricing structure to more accurately reflect the true value of the tools, or are you just being fatuous?

[Electric Comet]

dunno if they changed pricing but there was a tear-down video on a festool saw that was very revealing the fellow was knowledgeable doing the video and it was mentioned here not too long ago

[nailshooter41]

OK, I have been away for a few days and have to confess that I was wondering how our table turned out.

Spectacular!!

What a nice piece of art you turned out, Sonny. Not a remote chance that would turn up at the hunting camp... not one. That is gorgeous and deserves to be a center piece of someone's home. Probably a pretty good sized home... :^)

Great job.

Robert

[Leon]

Pfsss. LOL

[Leon]

AAMOF they have reduced the price of several tools and accessories. The Carvex jigsaw is just one. 15 volt 5amp Li-Ion batteries have dropped to $55.

[Leon]

Knowledgeable, maybe.

FWIW Festools stand the test of time.

What he thinks appears to be cheaply or marginally made does not indicate a lack of durability or quality.

I bought my wife a Ricar America vacuum cleaner. Expensive and appears to be cheaply made. I bought that in 1991. that thing still performs like it was new and most manufacturers have copied the concept.

[Electric Comet]

he does seem to know all the correct terminology and seems to know his way around pretty well

that is something many cheaper tools take shortcuts on for sure planned obsolence is the fancy word for garbage

he could do better by doing side-by-side comparisons but i think he had some good points

but what does festool care if they sell product it does ring a bit of the seagram's effect but pricing is quite a tricky thing

never hear of it but will have to see a tear down of that one i have had a hoover forever it sucks up dirt fine but it is loud loud loud

[Leon]

Seems is correct. I would suggest that the parts he focused on don't need to be as toughly built as he leads you to believe.

Anyway IIRC Festool was one of the first to have a track saw and IIRC some 40 years ago.

Well for some people a cheaply made tool is a better choice. There is value in a less expensive tool that gets the job done and floats around a work crew that may not appreciate the cost of buying tools. If it breaks or gets left in the rain or is left and lost it is more easily replaced. On the flip side the guy that purchases and uses the tools himself will almost always find better value in a more expensive better built tool.

Maybe, I don't recall which of the two sizes he was taking apart, I and Swingman both own the larger of the two saws and I can probably speak for him that neither of us have any problems or regret the purchase. And again, these saws have been around for decades and still have one of the best warranties in the industry. What we think matters may not matter at all.

Being German designed and manufactured in Germany with quality parts probably has a lot more to do with pricing than the illusion of better. Festool has been around for a relative long time and sold mostly to the trades. They were not inexpensive then nor now. I don't believe that their pricing is a recent scheme.

You mostly see Ricar vacuum cleaners at dealer and repair shops that mostly sell to cleaning companies. It is a commercial machine. The real beauty is that it is quiet compared to others and is very light weight. Probably 10~15 lbs.

I went into my local vac shop on the early 90's shopping for me. I request was that the machine keeps what it runs over, namely pennies and dimes, paper clips. etc. It does that very well, most would rattle the debris and throw it back out somewhere else. If yu run over something you better have intended to do so. At the time what made this machine different is that the debris and did did not go through the motor/suction impeller. The dirt wen straight from the hose into the bag. The motor/impeller creates a vacuum inside the air sealed bag chamber. Air goes through the bag and exits through a foam filter and then through a charcoal filter and then past the motor/impeller. I'm sure that there are many made like this now but it was pretty unique 25 years ago.

Another example of an item priced high are Honda lawn mowers. I paid $450 for mine, in the spring of 1987. It is about to complete its 29th season of cutting. I have changed the spark plug 1 time, air filter, 4 times, and the oil 20+ times. The oil still pours out clean. The cost of the mower and maintenance, less gas has probably cost me on average about $20 per season. My neighbors thought I was crazy for paying double the normal cost for a lawn mower.

[Puckdropper]

Leon wrote in news:2eGdnY [e-mail]:

Over time, I've come to these conclusions about price:

1. Quality costs money. It's worth spending on something you use regularly.
2. Everything has a point where you stop paying for quality and start paying for a name/marketing.

Puckdropper

[Electric Comet]

that is why i think he should do comparison test with the competition

i had considered this and it is true

do not know either but it was $1000

it must matter to some as festool seems to be doing well

it may also reflect the true cost because it is made by people getting paid western wages although i recall the bearings were chinese

i got my hoover in the 90's i think and it does this this is not novel at all the electrolux horizontal canister did the same from 60's or 70's

it did not have charcoal filters though because we were not so delicate than

honda motors are good

[Leon]

OK, maybe I misunderstood you. If he compares how the tool performs and holds up yes. Not by look at this bearing vs that bearing. A bearing, or what ever, that out lasts the useful life of tool is perfectly fine. A bearing that "would' out last the tool 3 times over is of no advantage.

It typically meets your expectations, and then some. It is a well thought out tool that complements and works hand in hand with other tools in the line up. Dust collection is spectacular.

I would find the bearing being Chinese disputable. I don't doubt that the guy mentioned or even showed a Chinese bearing but I'm not too sure the guy was being entirely truthful. Imagine that. ;~)

Some of them are... The OHV motors are better than the OHC motors. The OHV are commercial grade and "expensive".

My dad traded a 10 year old Honda mower with the OHV motor and I was shocked that they gave him $200 trade in. He bought the OHC model and I was not impressed. It has been in the shop for idle issues numerous times however that is mostly because of the California emissions that all Hondas have to pass.

[Leon]

I remember that, mostly because Festool does not charge $1000 for that saw. The bigger corded one is $750.00 including a 75" track and systainer case. Bought separately the 75" track is $200 and the case is north of $70.

I find that when someone exaggerates the price this is not all that is suspect about their comments.

Either way it is a fine saw and system. With its quality of cut it very well could replace or put off the need to buy a quality TS for cutting.

[Puckdropper]

Leon wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Just out of curiosity, have you experienced a kickback yet with the track saw? How does it handle it?

Puckdropper

[Electric Comet]

the designers would not usually specify a bearing with a huge MTBF as they cost more but i do not know if there are bearings with 20 year life expectancy or if there are bearings with a 35 year life expectancy

for my use dust collection is not important but i can understand that if you are doing finish work it might matter a lot indoors at a customer location

i never got the impression that he was lying he seems to be a straight shooter that does not mean he has no agenda but i do not think that he is falsifying his tear-downs

most of the non-honda motor equipment i see for sale seem to have carburetor problems maybe because they vibrate so much the honda always seem to run smoother

[krw]

I agree. They're not jobsite circular saws used by frame monkeys.

Even a contractor who buys tools for his crew will either buy cheap, as you suggest (so it's easily replaceable) or the best (so it won't get destroyed). The middle ground seems to be the arena of the home owner.

The smaller, a newer model of the one I own. I have no regrets, either, though it's a toy for me. It's an amazing tool.

Their track saw isn't that much more than the competition's. ...the reason I bought the Festool (and they have a *much* better stable of accessories).

...and it always starts on the first pull, even after sitting over the Winter, full of gas.

[krw]

It was the TS55 and it is not $1000, at least in the US. He must be in Canuckistan. They're about $550 here.

The whole mower is built well.

[krw]

I've only used mine on sheet goods, where one wouldn't expect kickback, and I haven't experienced it.

[krw]

I retired, if temporarily, in 2006 and immediately had a problem with A-Fib. That lasted nine months, until I had completely redone the interior of my house and put it on the market. Then SWMBO came down on the sawdust, so I went back to work. ;-)

I stopped drinking when I got A-Fib and haven't had as much as a beer since. I had bypass surgery last November and my doc said I could have one drink a day, in fact he suggested that it would probably be beneficial. Nah, been there.

Nah, I mostly enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to do something. Building something in Sketchup is nearly as enjoyable as the real thing. Tools are just a toy that makes it easier. I have a few major ones that I still want to buy but I have zero time to even get my shop together so I've put them on hold. I don't enjoy neander woodworking, though.

;-)

[krw]

Are you saying that you are a Festool user?