OT: The value of Ethanol

[Jeff]

Oh, and sorry, your comment above seemed to paint you as a lite beer fan...

[Jeff]

Beer might be the most important consumer good whose price is affected by ethanol but it's not the only one. The Economist has been tracking food prices since its inception.They are now at their highest point since 1850. The rise can be attributed to increased demand (meat in emerging economies) and America's ethanol policy.

they don't require authentication for images)

Jeff

[Garage_Woodworks]

Not sure what you mean by 'significant'. I wouldn't want to drink a beer made w/o hops, and I doubt you would either. Hops are VERY significant.

Uhhh. YES. If you need to hit a target IBU you have to use the same amount of hops/gallon. Regardless of batch size.

No. But he also doesn't pay the same for grain either. Hops are 20% of the cost (not including yeast and water) for me. I'm not sure what the % cost is for the big brewery, but it is going UP.

[Robatoy]

You are wasting your time, bro'.

You take a bucket, put in a handful of sand and add water till you hit the one gallon mark. Then in John Clarke's world, you then have a gallon of water, which you can pour off, leave the sand behind and still have a gallon of water. Then, in order to win the argument, convert the sand to water while you're at it.

It's funnier 'n shit if it wasn't so pitiful.

r---> who's really tired of this, so last message on this...back to woodworking.

[dpb]

Jeff wrote: ...

Actually, wheat is at a premium at the moment owing to poor crops in most of the major wheat producing areas last year (Russia, Australia, mixed in US)...

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[dpb]

Jeff wrote: ...

Ethanol (corn) is not really a significant factor in a more detailed analysis...

[Dave in Houston]

Back in November, wheat for December delivery was $9.42 +/- , approximately double from the previous year. Last I talked with our ranchers/farmers/lessees a few weeks back it was still holding in the mid-eight dollar range.

[dpb]

Actually broke $10 at terminal for cash delivery for a while...never made it here as the price drops (precipitously) as get away from the terminals owing to transportation cost (and, imo, the dockage is _far_ greater than the incremental cost :( ). We're typical almost 50-cents lower than Hutch which is less than 200 miles away and both on mainline rail service--they're Santa Fe, we're SP. _Can't_ cost $0.50(/bu!) for rolling a boxcar load 200 miles further.

Of course, where they had such bad winter weather and previous fall drought plus those same areas had the late spring freeze followed by widespread hail and then too much rain at harvest time so much of central KS/OK had nothing to cut. Doesn't matter what the price is if you don't have it to sell. OTOH, some of the NW and far SW corner KS and OK panhandle had first good crop in 5 to 7 years owing to the longterm drought we've been suffering under. Right here, there's very little dryland wheat again this year because we had no rain from July 4 until about a month ago so it was too dry to get it planted and up last fall over large area. We've had some decent rain/snow recently so we'll see if any that was "dusted in" will manage to now come up and make anything--it'll be thin at best...

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[Frank Boettcher]

Very difficult to believe that when you have a record crop but prices go up instead of going down, that the increased cost of feed does not cause the price of meat to increase. That's my butcher's position when I asked him why beef had risen so much in the last year. Didn't we go through this a couple of weeks ago? Thought I provided unbiased raw data, not massaged by any entity that had an agenda. Maybe not.

Frank

[dpb]

And, as one indicator, "to the farmer" percentage of retail food cost has gone from roughly 1/3-rd in the mid-70s to just a little over 20% last quarter (based on DOA survey cost data).

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[J T]

Wed, Jan 9, 2008, 5:39pm (EST-1) [e-mail] (Leon) doth sayeth: Totally OT but like Global Warming, Ethanol is a political hot bed.

I figure it's a political hot bed because the politicians are so busy sticking their ignorance in the way that a workable solution is delayed that much longer.

Politicians? Politicians? We don' need no steenkin' politicians.

I understand Brazil is a large user of ethanol for vehicle use. The ethanol is brewed from sugar cane, after the sugar is processed apparently, and then the cane is burned for the fuel to process the ethanol. I have NOT looked for details on this, just from items I've read here and there. Sounds reasonable to me. Like I said, it's my belief that if the politicians would just stay out of the way, the people that actually know what they're doing could git er done.

Politician Pol`i*ti"cian, n. Latin for career criminal

JOAT

10 Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President

- Bumper Sticker I quite agree.

[Greg Neill]

Politics: A combination of the word "poly", from the Greek meaning "many", and the word "tick" meaning a blood-sucking parasite.

[dpb]

Frank Boettcher wrote: ...

"raw" data isn't the whole story -- did you read the analysis?

Care to refute any specific portion of it when you have?

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[Rod & Betty Jo]

Not quite...the "sugar" is where the alcohol is brewed from.....regrettably the fiber doesn't feed the yeast and when yeast don't get fed, yeast don't pass "gas".......

While I like the concept of politicians staying out of the way.......in Brazil it was the politicians that created and encouraged their very successful alcohol fuel program (desired energy independence following the

70's oil shocks).......nonetheless the recent oil price run up and as importantly the development of flex fuel vehicles has taken a "ho hum" with falling public interest program and made it a wild success. Rod

[George]

Price-gouging! Windfall profits!

[Fred the Red Shirt]

[Frank Boettcher]

I prefer raw data that I can use to draw my own conclusions using logic and without any agenda.

If it is the same one you referenced last month, yes plus a bunch of others from other organizations that had an agenda to keep the subsidies going. If not, no.

been there done that, not going again. Our opinions will just have to differ on the issue.

Frank

[J T]

Thu, Jan 10, 2008, 5:17am (EST-3) [e-mail] (Jeff) doth posteth: But here's the *real* reason why this policy is detrimental: IT'S DRIVING UP THE PRICE OF BEER!!!

It's my understanding that the so-called non-alcholic beers are created from regular, alcholic, beer, and processed to remove the alcohol. There's still a bit left, sufficient to give me a mild buzz - you've gotta realize tho that it's been years since I've drank, and seldom drink even a NA beer anymore. A couple even taste decent. However, what I'm getting to, I would think it would be totally possible to caprure this processed out alcohol and then process it as fuel. Fuel prices will drop, beer supplies will increase, a winning solution all around. By the way, found this picture on the web, this isn't a picture of you, is it?

Out Of 10 Terrorists Prefer Hillary For President

- Bumper Sticker I quite agree.

[Dave in Houston]

I should mention tht those prices were for "contracted" wheat which, of course, means you gotta have some gonads to gamble making a crop to cover your contract. Our guys were planting back before the new year and it's up. But it's going to need a couple of inches of rain PDQ and I'm not seeing that. After more than three times the normal 19-20 inch annual rainfall average in a period of February to mid-August we've had damned little since

[Artemus]

You win. I concede defeat. You have beaten me at your own game.

Art (Who had a mental lapse ignored the time honored principle: "Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.")