OT: The value of Ethanol

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I should mention tht those prices were for "contracted" wheat which, of course, means you gotta have some gonads to gamble making a crop to cover your contract. Our guys were planting back before the new year and it's up. But it's going to need a couple of inches of rain PDQ and I'm not seeing that. After more than three times the normal 19-20 inch annual rainfall average in a period of February to mid-August we've had damned little since
--
NuWave Dave in Houston



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Price-gouging! Windfall profits!
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Oh, and sorry, your comment above seemed to paint you as a lite beer fan...
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Not sure what you mean by 'significant'. I wouldn't want to drink a beer made w/o hops, and I doubt you would either. Hops are VERY significant.

Uhhh. YES. If you need to hit a target IBU you have to use the same amount of hops/gallon. Regardless of batch size.

No. But he also doesn't pay the same for grain either. Hops are 20% of the cost (not including yeast and water) for me. I'm not sure what the % cost is for the big brewery, but it is going UP.
* http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/whatsontap/archives/128701.asp

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wrote in message

The ratio of hops to grist is not quite the same when brewing 5 gals. versus 500 gals., but the difference (ratio) is not that significant. The home brewer probably pays a bit more for his/her hops (PC) as a percentage of the cost to produce a gal of beer than a commercial brewery does. It doesn't matter what the commercial brewer pays per ton or ounce compared to the 5 gal. a pop guy. If the home brewer pays a buck an ounce and a commercial brewer pays a cent an ounce and the price of hops doubles, both buyers now face the same percentage increase in their ingredient cost. This is very over simplified. What I'm really trying to say is hops are not an insignificant percentage of the cost of the ingredients used in brewing.
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Hi Rod, I don't know if you are a brewer, but if you use an ounce of hops per 10 gallons, you must certainly like it very mildly flavored. Rarely do brewers use fresh hops (i.e. green hops). I've used my home grown green hops as an experiment in three batches (each 5 gals) and the beer was very far from steller, but what the hell, it was beer. In fact, I only started liking lambics and Berlinner Weiss after I became a homebrewer. Most if not all hops used in home or commercial brewing are dried. They are shipped in leaf form, compressed into a plug form, or ground and compressed into pellets. Some hops are super compressed and sold as hop oil. A brewer would use slightly less (by weight) of the compressed hop pellets than the other hop forms for a given brew. Most home brewers that I know only use hop oil to rescue an under hopped brew. I don't know of any commercial brewers that use hop oil, but I suspect that some do. For a ten gallon brew of a medium strength beer or ale, I would probably mash 14-18 lbs. of malt and hop the brew with 3 or 4 ounces of bittering hops and 2 or three ounces of finishing hops. The hop quantities may vary depending on the alpha acid content of the hops. Brewing with high alpha hops (more bitter) requires fewer hops depending on the style being brewed. I ounce of 20% alpha hops will have almost twice the bittering as 10% alpha hops. Most hops used as flavor hops are close to the same alpha content. I buy malted barley in 50 lb. sacks at less than a buck a lb. Depending on the variety, hops are hitting a buck or more on ounce and noble varieties, two bucks or more an ounce. At this point the price of hops is approching 50% of the cost of the ingredients required to brew beer (again, I am talking home brewing). The price of hops has been rising for several years. The price of hops from the EU has risen to a much higher degree than North American hops. Grain prices for the homebrewer have remained fairly stable. Beer brewed with barley malt and hops is the most costly. The price comes down when corn, rice or wheat are added to the grist. I'm not into a pissing contest. I'm just relating my experience. Hank
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Beer would BE an excellent choice for a pissing contest though.
r
Erdinger Weiss RULES!
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I occasionally buy hops from this guy:
http://morebeer.com/search/102163
Look how many hop varieties are "Temporally out of stock". Depressing...
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wrote:

Now I enjoy a nice stout on occasion, but if the price of beer going up 25% creates a serious financial problem for you, it might be time to back away from the bar.
todd
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Beer might be the most important consumer good whose price is affected by ethanol but it's not the only one. The Economist has been tracking food prices since its inception.They are now at their highest point since 1850. The rise can be attributed to increased demand (meat in emerging economies) and America's ethanol policy.
http://www.economist.com/images/20071208/CLD454.gif
(Hopefully, they don't require authentication for images)
Jeff
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Jeff wrote: ...

Ethanol (corn) is not really a significant factor in a more detailed analysis...
http://www.informaecon.com/Renew_Fuels_Study_Dec_2007.pdf
--
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Prepared by..........an unbiased entitiy?
Very difficult to believe that when you have a record crop but prices go up instead of going down, that the increased cost of feed does not cause the price of meat to increase. That's my butcher's position when I asked him why beef had risen so much in the last year. Didn't we go through this a couple of weeks ago? Thought I provided unbiased raw data, not massaged by any entity that had an agenda. Maybe not.
Frank
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Frank Boettcher wrote: ...

"raw" data isn't the whole story -- did you read the analysis?
Care to refute any specific portion of it when you have?
--
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I prefer raw data that I can use to draw my own conclusions using logic and without any agenda.
If it is the same one you referenced last month, yes plus a bunch of others from other organizations that had an agenda to keep the subsidies going. If not, no.

been there done that, not going again. Our opinions will just have to differ on the issue.
Frank
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But you didn't refute any portion of their analysis at all; all you did was show a correlation which supported _your_ bias... :)
The basic conclusion that the majority of the cost spread is in the non-food portion (ie., processing, marketing and distribution) and that the farm-commodity portion of food costs has dropped from 35% to about 20% during this time is pretty much incontrovertible irrespective of one's opinion on ethanol.
--
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dpb wrote:

And, as one indicator, "to the farmer" percentage of retail food cost has gone from roughly 1/3-rd in the mid-70s to just a little over 20% last quarter (based on DOA survey cost data).
--
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were
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wrote: As chance would have it, this from today's NY Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/10/opinion/10cohen.html?_r=1&hp&oref=login
--
NuWave Dave in Houston



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NY Times? Mexican food??? Are you *sure* you're from Houston ;-)
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Born, raised, and tired of it.
I look at (often even read some articles) in the Times and the Washington Post, and a handful of others mostly because I have some connection to the community.
--
NuWave Dave in Houston



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