Dissatisfied with Lee Valley order

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Two weeks ago I needed two items in a hurry for a project I was trying to complete on schedule, so I ordered by telephone. I mistakenly believed that order method would be the fastest available to me. The order has never arrived. I no longer needed the items since I used other tools I already had on hand to complete the project in order to meet schedule. I will refuse the shipment if it ever does arrive and have informed Lee Valley of my decision to do so.
I never received notification that the order was shipped or any other communication of any nature from Lee Valley. I am extremely disappointed with Lee Valley in this situation and have told them so.
In future, I will never again order anything via telephone from Lee Valley. That method is totally untrustworthy as the company has now proved to me. Someone flubbed up royally in this situation. If there is a record of that order, then the telephone order taker's name should be available to Lee Valley. At the very least, that person needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done.
Woody
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Well you are absolutely the first person that I have ever heard of that is disappointed in any way with Lee Valley... Had it been important to me, I would have followed up on the order and gotten a tracking number, but that is just me. I don't think you will get much sympathy here.
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I was not looking for sympathy from this experienced group. I simply told the truth of my situation. I had no time to bitch to Lee Valley because I needed my project completed. Let the dust settle where it will. I will not retract one word of what I said because it is true.
Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this group?
You made a WIDE and totally faulty jump when you suggested I was looking for sympathy. I was only trying to inform the group of the particulars of a specific order attempt to Lee Valley. Nothing less and nothing more. You had absolutely no reason to challenge my posting. You added nothing helpful at all. Go take a flying leap!
Truth stands head and shoulders above uninformed and erroneous static from the far left bleachers.
Hoyt Weathers
Leon wrote:

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snip Hoyt Weathers wrote:

Hey Leon any more room on the bleachers? I suspect that Perry and I need a seat too. I get tracking numbers, and I've never had anything but great service from LV.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
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On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:30:23 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@fairfax.com wrote:

FWIW -- OP's tone was bit harsh for me as a general matter. And as for the tone relative to LV, I have only a couple of experiences (both good) with Lee Valley. Yet, consider the many posts here -- and I like this -- that simply say things like, "I used finish X and it was good/bad", or "I tried returning something to HF and here is what happened that pissed me off." Those are SOP here. I also noticed (I think) that OP did not say that he would never buy again from LV, just that he would never order again by phone. Obviously, YMMV -- and re LV obviously it has -- but I think OP had a legit point to make, w/ his own style, and he did. Again, FWIW.
And, BTW, I get royally pissed at a number of companies along the way, but I never say "never again". If they have what I need, all things considered -- even if I feel that they ripped me off the last time -- then I still shop there if it suits my fancy. I just proceed a bit wiser (I hope) from the past bad experiences. OTOH, I warn all my friends and if I can find what I need elsewhere, then that is where I look first -- elsewhere. No nose cutting and face spiting here.
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as a matter of fact, Hoyt you won't find anyone more reasonable on the Wreck than Leon. I suggest you take your bad attitude somewhere else, as it isn't going to fly too far here. I can't comment on the merits of Lee Valley as I haven't purchased from them yet, but I've read nothing but good things about them. I wonder if your communication skills are up to par?
dave
Hoyt Weathers wrote:

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It you _really_ want the "TRUTH", especially of what others see when you decide to publicly play victim and whine, simply count the number of "i"s in your original post.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
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group?
for
specific
absolutely no

a flying

I took your original statement as is, that Lee Valley Tools accidentally screwed up an order. It's unfortunate, but it happens. However, it didn't take very long for you to immerse yourself into an attacking stance when someone questioned what you had to say. Already, you appear to be obsessing over this which takes the light off of Lee Valley and focuses it on you. Next time, try shooting yourself in the foot, it's easier and faster.
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I sure hope you have a strong crash helmet and good insurance. You're going to need both when you fall off your high horse and that chip on your shoulder hits someone nearby.
Nobody doubts your statement that you placed an order and have not received it. What people have been trying to tell you is (1) none of us, not even Lee Valley, is perfect and (2) if you had talked to the management at Lee Valley as soon as possible, you would now be praising Lee Valley instead of complaining. By the way, your assumption that on a telephone order, Lee Valley would use the fastest possible shipping method was a bad assumption. Most businesses have a regular shipping method that is used unless the customer specifies otherwise. It was YOUR responsibility to inquire about shipping when you placed your order.
However, the most important message that people are trying to get through what seems to be an extraordinarily thick skull is that of ALL the business entreprises that do mail orders, Lee Valley is near or at the top of custormer service.
For example, a year or so ago, they had one of their house tools redesigned because of a problem in the original design. Without any obligation whatsoever, they shipped a replacement tool to EVERY buyer of the original design for whom the had an address.
Just last week, someone in this group mentioned that they received a "surprise" cheque in the mail from Lee Valley to refund them the difference between that they had paid for a recent order and the new, lower price that had just come into effect for that item. I know a few places that do that IF you are aware of the change and ask for an adjustment but I don't know of any others that send out cheques in such cases.
By the way, since Lee Valley (and most other dealers) now process Web orders just as quickly as phone orders (and since I don't have exaggerated worries about placing an order on-line with a credit card), I NEVER make phone orders anymore unless I need some special service or information. With the web order, I get quick confirmation and a tracking number.
Robin Lee, the President and General Manager of Lee Valley is the kind of man who, in an emergency, would get in his personal car and hand deliver you a tool if for some reason his people had screwed up your order and you were nearby. Otherwise, if you had contacted him at the earliest moment, he would have rushed your tool to you, probably at HIS expense.
There are lots of merchants who deserve to be trashed and publicly villified. Lee Valley is not one of them. That could change, of course, but is not likely. People of real, proven integrity usually can be counted on.
If as you say you plan never to order from them again, it is YOUR loss. By the way, in other aspects of your life, are you the kind of person who dump on other people whom you think have done you wrong without even giving them the chance to defend themselves or to make amends? It is a serious character flaw called "backbiting" (saying mean or malicious things about someone who is not present).
If there ever is a next time (with Lee Valley or another supplier), inform the supplier FIRST and then come tell us what you think about the supplier. As a group, we're not much impressed with idle, gratuitous bad mouthing of others.
--
Regards,

Benoit Evans
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Things happen. This may very well have been one problem out of thousands of orders. Leon's approach would have been the thing to do.

the truth

project
of what I

group?
for
specific
absolutely no

a flying

the far

is
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CW wrote:

The only thing I have found is that they want to charge obscene amounts, unrelated to the size or value, to ship internationally. When I want stuff, I ship it to my sister in FL, and she ships it to me. Still cheaper than LV prices !
Steve
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Hoyt,
I'm quite willing to note you bad experience along with the many positive experiences posted regarding Lee Valley. However, my perception of your attitude, particularly in your response to Leon helps me assign a relevant weighting factor to your experience.
You seem quite defensive; I did not notice anyone asking for a retraction.
Leon's post made no comment regarding the acceptability of your post, nor did I think he was challenging your post. Just as you were informing the group of your particular problem with Lee Valley, Leon was putting your problem in context of the many positive posts about Lee Valley. His comment about you being the first person that he has heard of with such a problem could easily be a statement of fact and does not appear (to me) to be a challenge to your post. Although you do not acknowledge Leon's comments as useful, I think Leon did add two useful points to your post: (1) a greater context of all Lee Valley experiences posted and (2) tips on how someone could help themselves from experiencing the same problem you did.
As far as you looking for sympathy, I think it is reasonable for someone to have reached that conclusion based on your original post. However, Leon's comment about sympathy can also be taken as a simple statement of his opinion and does not directly suggest that you were looking for sympathy. In this context you could be accused of making a WIDE and faulty jump when you suggested that Leon suggested you were looking for sympathy. :-)
In closing, I would suggest that you re-read the posts by Leon and yourself and ask yourself how your posts came across and whether that it how you meant for them to come across. I think that the last line of your original post could apply equally well to you: "At the very least, that person needs some serious attitude adjustments before more harm is done."
Best Regards, BadgerDog
P.S. Are you the Hoyt Weathers that was an engineer for NASA?

the truth

project
of what I

group?
for
specific
absolutely no

a flying

the far

is
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Sun, Sep 14, 2003, 7:05pm (EDT-1) snipped-for-privacy@hiwaay.net (HoytWeathers) asks: <snip> Leon, are you the official judge of acceptability of postings to this group? <snip of bs>
You mean you posted here without knowing that? Damn. There's always that 10% that doesn't get the word.
JOAT Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 15 Sep 2003. Some tunes I like. http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE /
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In all fairness.... the order could have been misdirected after it left Lee Valley, by whatever carrier. They may have done everything right...sometimes stuff just happens. Did you call when you didn't get the order in a reasonable time? Or did you wait and fume and get madder'n madder? Maybe if you would have called and "hey, my order's not here", they could have had the option to jet a duplicate out to you. Was this your first order with them? Invoices DO get lost. I personally try to not box myself in a corner so that a delay in delivery won't upset the karma of everything. I always call my customer and explain that there may be a problem, with delivery of supplies or tools and they are always understanding. I have always had excellent service from Lee Valley.. Perry bentcajungirl

complete on

method would be

needed the

project in order

have informed

communication
in this

Valley. That

Someone flubbed

telephone
that person

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I would have to agree with Leon, I have placed orders over the phone, over the web and shopped in person and never had a problem
--
David
1964 Karmann Ghia coupe
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complete on

method would be

Have you called to confirm the order? There could be 100's of reasons why you never received, none of them Lee Valley's fault! Until you confirm, I would zip my lip! Greg
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Assuming that you're not just trolling, I have to ask: did you ever try calling them to check on the status of your order? If they did indeed screw up (they're only human, after all) they would have had a chance to fix up what was wrong and chances are they would have done so.
Before I posted such a sweeping criticism of any company, I would at least take that simple step.
wrote:

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Im sure Lee Valley will really miss you...........
-- Knowledge speaks, wisdom listen..... Jimi Hendrix

complete on

method would be

needed the

project in order

have informed

communication
in this

Valley. That

Someone flubbed

telephone
that person

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I love Lee Valley! They have always done me right. Great service; only one that I know of shipping faster is Garrett-Wade.
wrote:

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complete on

method would be

communication
in this

This is sort of contradictory. You say it was screwed up and you told them you are going to refuse the order. That means you have been in contact with them about the order. So, was it shipped? If so, when? By what carrier?

Valley. That

Someone flubbed

telephone
that person

Possible. What did they tell you when you called to complain? Surely you did inquire about the particular order and they either told you they had it, when it shipped, and how, OR, they did screw up and lose your order. Come on now, tell us what they said. Was your credit card charged?
As for attitude adjustment, that is BS. Attitude has nothing to do with a piece of paper falling behind the desk either in the order department or the shipping department. I doubt very much that the order take decided to shit can your order just for laughs.
Are you blaming LV for the delay when it has been sitting at the post office for a week? Or the UPS guy could not find your house?
I have no doubt that you placed an order. I have no doubt that you did not receive it. BUT, you also said you told them you were going to refuse it. That means you are not telling the whole story. What did they say when you called? You sure leave a lot of details out here for the jury to come to a verdict.
Sorry Hoyt, but while you may be po'd at LV, the story is not complete. Not one person reading this is going to change the way they do business on account of it as our own experiences are so good. I've yet to find a company that is as personable, honest, and offers such a superb guarantee of satisfaction. They even refund shipping cost both ways. Does Home Depot give you gas money when you make a return?
We want to know "the rest of the story". Ed
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