In your other thread on those aluminum bar clamps, you state that Princess Auto claims their product is identical to the LV clamps. Can you *VERIFY* this? (Andy has posted a cursory analysis saying they are not the same.) I think you can provide real value (and real information) to this newsgroup by doing a comparison. A webpage with some close-up photos and your review of the two products would add serious weight to your claim, assuming they are the same. (And LV will of course take their clamp back if you decide it's not worth the price you paid.)
If I were close to the Mississauga Princess Auto I'd go over and take a look... but I'm not.
What are the options if a Canadian wants to take their business elsewhere? I've checked the LV prices against other companies' products and the prices aren't much lower elsewhere. Some are higher and some are lower. Overall, LV prices are a tad high, but with LV in business, I know I can get good to superb quality tools and widgets at a reasonable price. If I lose LV, I get to buy very expensive stuff from the US or buy mostly crap locally. I'm willing to pay a few bucks more to get LV products reliably (and I've got two stores within an hour's drive :-)
LV has not raised their prices significantly in the last year. What has happened is that the US$ has sunk a lot. If C$ pricing was fair in the past, then why is it suddenly high just because the US$ is falling through the floor?
Quit yer bellyaching. I'd gladly trade a gazillion Walmarts for one LV.
If you don't think this little public display of annoyance will make Lee Valley bean counters consider their future Canadian pricing a little more carefully you don't understand business.
There's a whole pile of conditions that have an effect on why something maybe more expensive in Canada and there's a number of areas where the reverse might be true.
Have you ever compared the cost of flying anywhere in Canada to flying in the US? I can fly five times the distance in the US for what it costs to fly anywhere in Canada. How do you explain something like that? Centering out Lee Valley Tools for being caught in the middle of exchange rate conditions and country conditions is at best, a waste of time.
In my town I can buy an awful lot of "third party stuff" that looks the same. Product development seems to be on the basis of one factory blatantly copying another. But this low-end stuff usually isn't _quite_ the same, if you look closely. If you ever see a new sort of Chinese clamp selling for .99c, then buy a handful, and buy them that day. Because by the time the second boatload lands, they'll have worked out how to make them more cheaply and less well.
If the US$ had done better, the US consumer would take a hit and LV would get and exchange bonus. At the same time sales would be likely lost due to the percieved increase in pricing mitigating that "windfall".
The system is brought about by LV's business decision to set prices, publish and annual catalog and then stick with the published pices for the entire year. This is a choice that I as a consumer appreciate.
Sidebar: My dad had the unpleasant experience of having to argue with a McFeeleys rep to get a product to the price listed in a current catalogue. It's a good example of the alternative. Personally I think Mcfeeleys screws are great but *My* first-hand experience was that their customer service ....well it ain't LV.
The downside to LV's policy is that they end up selling at prices based on an exchange rate that is up to 16 months old.
It seems to me that the *only* way to satisfy your concerns are the following alternatives:
Floating US pricing based on exchange - A serious turn off to US customers because they can't look at a product an know what it costs
Only sell in CAD funds and thet the credit card companis work the exchange - Essentially the same thing
Make the catalogs/pricing pulication quarterly.
Robert you do have a point that ultimately the whole customer base pays for the conversion "expenses" incurred by LV in terms of next year's pricing. So, in a very convoluted way, you are subsidizing my tool habit. Thank you.
However, when I go to the stupidmarket for a gallon of milk at $4.09 (which the retailer uses as a cash cow) Am I not subsidizing the tuna eaters (of which I am not one) who can buy the loss-leading Tuna which you yourself have driven down in price?
That's it, I'm pissed at Robert for spiraling down the tuna costs so that I have to pay more for milk!
There is not much room for interpretation here. The item in question, as I stated, is made in Canada. I chose the block plane as an example to isolate everything but the exchange rate and any remaining arbitrary cost differential. If anything, it should be more expensive in the States, since it is made in Canada. Seems unlikely it could cost less to get to the good to Canada when it is made there. I am not making a moral statement, nor a political one, just pointing out the economic reality driving the price difference.
Flights are cheaper in the US because there is more competition for passengers. This is precisely why the plane is cheaper there, as well. More competition leads lo lower profit-maximizing pricing. If you can identifying the cost advantage to a Canadian-made plane selling in the US I would love to hear it... I was merely trying to explain the observed phenomenon of the pricing spreads, not pass moral judgement on Lee Valley.
The reason Bosch sells for more in Canada is that the distributor, Amiel, is taking a very high markup - significantly higher than that taken by the retailer. I predict Bosch will pull the plug on them in the next while.
If you consider the discussion a waste of time, that is your business, but it is puzzling that you would then choose to participate in said discussion...
yeahbutt. you are comparing todays's exchange rate to pricing that was set on an exchange rate that was probably set some time ago. Rob already told us that they set that in June, but that may be '03 in this case once you figure in the lead times for catalog production.
According to the Bank of Canada:
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1.23 June 1, 2003 1.3685 June 1, 2004 1.3695
So basically we're talking about a 3% difference between their pricing and the exchange rate at the time the prices were set.
I just don't see where the there is a conpiracy to screw the locals here.
Having worked several years in retail in Canada, I know that many items had US retail pricing below Canadian wholesale. Generally this was due to a small distributor taking a huge margin in the middle, with the retailer stuck with low margins to customers: 25% - 30%. The barriers to entry to retail are relatively low, compared to distribution, and so the fat tends to stay with the middleman.
Dewalt USA also appears to handle the distribution to Canada. I am inclined to believe that Dewalt has decided to make more money in Canada, per unit, as opposed to simply higher retail margins prevailing.
Robin has made it perfectly clear Canadians pay more because the market supports it. He also made it clear he can't lower the Canadian price because he need the higher profits to subsidize the lower prices he charges Americans.
It's business. If Lee Valley can become a big player in the US they don't really need Canadian customers.
Subsidized health care is very attractive to US or other foreign companies setting up in Canada. The cost of the most expensive employee benefit is largely paid for by the Canadian public.
Dewalt USA is also the Canadian supplier and distributor and they set the wholesale pricing to retailers. The margins at retail level for Dewalt are similar to any other brand name product, perhaps averaging in the 15-25% range.
The pricing of flights is determined by passenger yields, passenger volume, and the competitive environment. There are low cost carriers flying between major Canadian routes that offer very competitive rates, even compared to similar travel in the US.
Don't know what this has to do with Lee Valley as most of their stuff is shipped ground freight.
I do understand business. I know why there are a gazillion Walmarts and only a few LVs. I'm not interested in business - I'm interested in getting good value for my money. I've been getting that from LV for years. You've been complaining, but I ain't buying it.
Well now ... Delta Airlines and their commuter subsidiaries have been flying CRJs (40 pax model) for several years now. The CRJ ... (Canadair Regional Jet) is a short-haul jet replacing a number of turboprop planes. The thrust to weight ratio is very close to 1:1 ... getting you off the ground and up ... QUICK. It's more cost effective than the older turboprops per pax seat than the turboprops, yet can use the same runways, and beats the 15-25 pax turboprop loads.
This was AFTER consideration of US short-haul jets ... the CRJs were cheaper to purchase and fly.
*****
Now I have a question ... does LV's Canadian prices include VAT/GST, or are they applied separately?
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