Cigarette smoke perculates through the walls from next door. Ugh. How can I seal it?

[Dave Plowman]

Yes - just like public schools.

[Andy Wade]

That's two barrels you've scrapped this week, which is rather a waste. Get a scraper and learn to scrape your barrels without scrapping them. Please.

[Terry]

Obviously selected for maximum effect; but just to mention some 'actual life' (or should that be 'death'?) situations: A current ad on Canadian TV is a waitress who has never smoked but has spent her working life in a bar where people smoked. She has terminal lung cancer due to 'Second Hand Smoke'. Many bars and restaurants now do not allow smoking. Another, a woman, not yet 60, worked for me and was an inveterate smoker. She has a slightly mentally challenged daughter who is dependent on her. Met her recently following the removal of one complete lung. Terry. PS. One day my son and I stopped because there was a two to three year old used vehicle, in seemingly very good condition, posted with a more than reasonable price and low mileage. The moment we opened the door to look inside the reason was obvious. The 'stink' was awful. The driver must have been a chain smoker (maybe he had died?). Our estimate was that due to the smoke damage the vehicle had lost 'at least' several thousand dollars due to smoke damage. If you take conservative estimates of a) The loss of value (-$4000); together with b) The cost of cigarettes for say three years at two packs a day? (-$7500) plus higher life insurance premiums for someone in mid life, say (3 X 1000 = -$3000). Total dollars around -$15000 over three years plus health costs? If that $approx. $5000 per year figure is anywhere near correct that's a heck of a cost over a lifetime; and considering that's after paying income tax is equivalent to gross earnings of somewhere around $300,000! WOW!

[Fraser]

Yay!! Let's pass more completely unenforceable laws!! What do you propose to do? Have special smoke detectors forced upon parents, which get audited regularly?

Or, you could get the kids to grass on their parents!! That'll work! It'll create a lot of resentment and paternal turmoil, but who cares, right!?!

Most parents I know that smoke, don't do it in front their children. No one ever smokes near my younger relatives either, but this isn't some rule that's ever been mentioned. It's just the way it's done.

Older folk take longer to change, they are a bit set in their ways. But every young to middle-age smoker is aware that smoking around kids is a no-no.

Sorry to break your hatemongering.

F./

[Fraser]

I didn't.

[Fraser]

Of course, by viable I mean "actually has a chance of winning".

It could be worse. We could be America. ;-)

If Bush wins next year, I'm packing a panic bag & tent and keeping spare fuel in the car. And a compass to drive north. Maybe a map of known millitary bases to stay the hell away from. Just in case the shit hits the fan.

F.

[Fraser]

Sure. I'll spend even more of my own time on some pointless usenet thread. I'd love to!!

Aye. Right.

F.

[Fraser]

A few things about polls:

a) Who paid for it?

b) What was the sample size vs population of the country?

c) What was the method of polling? Different types of people respond to different types of polling, and ditto folk that say "sorry, too busy"

d) What exactly were the questions asked? Were they "leading" in any way?

e) No issues are black and white. Where did the "middle-ground" people vote? (see d)

e) What time of day were they polled?

f) Any other polls out there showing different or similar results?

Polls don't mean shit.

F./

[Fraser]

You don't know what clearly don't understand what "freedom" is. If a person wants to open a bar and sell booze while allowing them to smoke, that is their choice. It's our choice if we want to go there.

On the other hand, freedom also allows a person to open a no-smoking bar. Where are they all then? Or, perhaps are you in the minority here?

Yawn...you don't need to go there, blah blah blah.

F.

[Fraser]

Hmm, looking out the window, my local is shut now.

Are you even aware of the hypocrisy in that statement, given your views on smoking in bars? You want to interfere with my freedom, chump. If we were in a pub discussing this, I'd gladly chain smoke, despite the increased risk, just to wind you up.

Oh really? How d'ya figure?

So do soap operas and self-hatred over not being one of the beautiful people? Ban TV then?

You are insulting our intelligence. Any point that you can't counter gets ignored or you write something stupid.

No one is forcing you into the pub. If we held you there at gunpoint, then maybe...

You are kiding, right? At least 50% of it is large print death warnings.

Dammit. I gotta quote Mr Hicks now...

"Did you know different cigarette brands have different warning labels on them? Mine for example says: 'cigarette smoking can cause birth defects and low birth weight.' F*ck it...found my brand! What does yours say there chief? 'Throat polyps?' Tell ya what you keep that one."

Fact: Smoking is not guaranteed to kill you. It _probably_ will though, provided something else doesn't get you in the mean time.

None of us gonna live for ever. I plan on enjoying my time here.

You are quite funny, in an eccentric way!! :-)

F.

[Fraser]

Yup, and bars know they now have to make an effort to clean the air. So we do have an improvement.

Secondly, people without exposure to second-hand smoke also get terminal lung cancer. Who is to say she wouldn't have gotten it even if she spent her life working in the open air in the country? Your wording is very interesting, when scientifically, there isn't really away that you can say - "She has terminal lung cancer due to 'Second Hand Smoke'" and be 100% accurate.

What's more accurate would be:

"She worked in a smoky atmosphere for a very long time, and it's very likely that it led to her terminal lung cancer". I'm a stickler for things like this, campaigners for just about everything (both sides!) use similar leading wording like yours to imply connections. Like Bush every time he uses the word "Terror" in relation to Iraq. Total manipulation.

But she is an extreme case. Extreme cases, or shock tactics, don't work for everyone. If people don't see the "shock" around them in day-to-day life, then they figure it doesn't apply to them. Of course, I'm sure they work for some folk, "what price a life" and all that!!

Tragic. Yes, smoking kills unfortunatly. That's never been the debate here.

Hmm, horrible. I smoke in my car, but always with the window open. Combined with an anti-tobacco air freshener, it's not smelly at all. The previous owner must have smoked on mine as well, ashtray and lighter had been used. Your guy must have been like a chimney, minus the open window to get rid of the smoke!! You could have probably gotten rid of the smell with a little work and household cleaners, and made a killing reselling it all cleaned up. Given the care he took of himself (smoking in confined space = bad!), I doubt the engine would have been up to much tho!!

Ignore that, it's small fry. ;-)

Two packs a day is a lot, most smokers are probably under one. But it's still a ridiculous sum. Do some calcs with groceries and rent/mortgages, and you'll it's not all that bad, but still a healthy (pun intended) chunk of your cash.

By the way, you can remove the "health costs" from the calculation. Even as a non-smoker, you are still going to die, and likely need medical care during the process. If you somehow manage survive whatever it is that gets you first, you then get to spend your money you saved on residential care, while you rot away.

F.

[stuart noble]

The worst form of child abuse is depriving them of your time, which parents have so little of these days. Too busy shopping.

[Christian McArdle]

Actually, the worst form of child abuse is sexually assaulting them, torturing them for long periods and then killing them, whilst filming it all for sale.

Christian.

[IMM]

The law could be passed that covers causing knowingly causing ill health problems to children.

[IMM]

How many of them? Few and far between.

Oh my God the addicted are at it again!! "They would have got it anyway", and "my granddad died at 90 and chain smoked and was siuper fit (as if)", etc.

The probability of getting lung cancer when smoking is massively higher.

...and he rambles on....

He fails to understand probabilities.

Are you mad? many here are telling us it doesn't or the risk is so low it is not worth talking about and smokers have this God given right to ruin other people's health.

..and more absolute garbage from the addicted...

You can NEVER get rid of the awful nicotine small in a car. The only way is to replace the capets and roof lining and hope you have wash down leather seats. he NEVER goes away.

I only buy new cars as I know there hasn't been a smoker in it.

Sure it is!

[IMM]

..he must be the only one who sees hypocrisy.

What freedom might that be? So,me [people think they should have the right to smack people with sticks in the street for no apparent reason. We forbid that freedom to them and some of them complain.

You can't wind me up as I am brighter than you. Blow smoke in my face and you will get either a) A full pint in your face b) a sharp headbut. That would probably sort you out.

..or addicted one tries some reasoning..

....but fails...

...but he tries again...

That is not the point. I have the right to go into any public place and not have my health affected. Your addiction warpes and reasoning you have.

.....lo-and-behold, has he seen the light?....

[IMM]

..out resident clown comments...

He obviously wants some sort of NAZI totalitarian state.

[IMM]

...our addicted one is at it again...

Freedom is going into public places and not having to breath in toxic fumes.

And when we do go there the proprietor must not endanger our health.

[IMM]

Nicotine makes you blind as well? Are you reading this via brail?

[IMM]

...our addicted one babbles on....

< snip tedium >

Every exist poll on election day been amazingly accurate.