Other's use of alcohol probably has more effect on the health of the nation than passive smoking. Apart from Roy Castle, how many people do you know who have definitely been harmed by this? But drunk drivers, etc, are all too common.
It would be very easy to provide a ventilation system in restaurants etc which removed any chance of smoke irritating those in a non smoking area. But a drunk filter is rather more difficult.
geoff wrote: in part
Yes. And some now, today, supposedly very respectable brewers and distiller families very rich! PS. A recent 'innovation' is to sell heavily taxed goods such as cigarettes and liquor to North American Indian reserves that in some case straddle the US-Canada border. The goods supplied are supposedly for use on the those reserves of course. Of course! Then 'white men' drive onto the reserve (are even encouraged to do so) and buy those products at much at lower price than in their own heavily taxed bordering countries. The Indians make a nice profit, the manufacturers sell more product without the hassle of tariffs, federal government taxes quotas etc. and the white men buy it cheaper. Hard to stop every vehicle entering leaving the reserves on a 24 hour basis eh? "No liquor or cigarettes officer; we are here just to play some games at the day/night bingo entertainment hall!" Which also makes a nice tax free profit for the reserve!
Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with you there, are you seriously telling me that having a television on doesn't preclude most other activities in the vicinity?
If I am travelling and have to stop, what choice do I have? I should not have to look at signs or anything else, there should be no health hazard toxic fumes in public places FULL STOP!!!! It is that simple.
I have the right to go into any public place and not have my lungs burnt out. That is, any place that has its doors open to the public for any reason. It is very simple.
If people want to smoke together then they can form a private members only smokers place, and kill themselves that way. Simple as that.
You are so clearly addicted to nicotine it affects your reasoning. Smoking gives nobody NOTHING. It gives them a perceived pleasure, which is just the relief of the nicotine withdrawal symptoms.
You don't actually have the right to walk into any bar or restaruant of your choice - the proprietor can choose not to admit you if they so wish.
-- Richard Sampson
email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk
It isn't. It affects people's health.
Yes, what warped logic next?
My freedom is lost right now!!!! I should have the freedom to gointo any public place and not breath in tocic fumes. I want freedom, I am not getting it!!!!
Have it where it doesn't affect other people. If tobacco was introduced today it would be put in the same category as heroin. That is reason enough for a total ban alone.
You don't enjoy a cigarette, you assume please from the withdrawal symptoms.
You are right. About the thing you have been right on. So, ban it from public places, all forms of sponsorship and advertising, have it in white packs, as it is when you buy any drug, and have it sold from only special outlets to peopel with IDs, as in Utah for alcohol., although I do not advocate selling alcohol like they do. Take the glamour out of smoking.
In a society of 60 million that is not much at all. They decided to import cheap Taiwanese steel and whole city, Sheffield, went down the pan, and no one cared.
He will get the money from other sources. That money spent on Tobacco will be spent on something else.
You are mad!
Market forces do apply to heath !!!!! Got it !!!! I should have the freedom to go into any place with its doors open to the public and not breath in toxic fumes. If people want to kill themselves slowly then they can have private members clubs to prevent my freedom being infringed upon. It is that simple!!!!
I know that. I was making a hypothetical point to clarify a very simple point. That was obvious. Smoking should be away from the public. Non-smokers are the majority by far and we are being short changed by the government in allowing toxic smelly uncomfortable fumes to come into contact with us.
I have the right to walk in as the door is open. Him not serving me is another matter entirely, which none has done as yet.
That sidelet is off mark to the main point.
In message , Fraser wrote
So a massive number of people no longer go to bars and restaurant in New York? I wonder were they now go socially?
I wonder how many bar and restaurant businesses in New York failed on a daily basis before the ban came into place and were never reported? The smoking lobby then complied the figures of closed businesses after the ban and concluded that the result was due to the ban alone.
If a ban is universal then there would be advantage or disadvantage of one business over another except in the level of service or quality they provide.
6 pubs a day close in the UK because there is no ban on smoking! (and if a ban was introduced I bet the figure would be - 6 pubs a day)
If smoking kills 50% of all addicts one way or another, it is a little hard to believe in the argument that the unfiltered smoke is harmless to anyone in the vicinity, frankly.
In message , Christian McArdle wrote
I'm surprised that the smoke levels in many pubs don't already contravene the health as safety at work legislation.
If someone was working on an industrial process that produced so much smoke then the employer would be forced to provide adequate ventilation or breathing/filter apparatus and keep the general public and other workers away from the process area.
It's about time we considered what alternatives there are to the soviet style system we have now.
Why can't I buy topical steroid creams over the counter in a supermarket? In the states I can buy hydrocortisone cream in big tubes at Walgreens for USD 4 upwards. here I've got to go to a Pharmacy and tell the pimply 17 year old youth why I want it in the full view of the whole store. It's as expensive as hell and the tubes are tiny. This has nothing to do with maintaining a lucrative monopoly for the pharmacists of course. Also BTW, in the states I've bought bottles of
*500* aspirins for USD 3.00 each, buy 2 get 1 free!SWMBO has a regular prescription for hypertension tablets. She can only have 8 weeks tablets at a time, she has to physically trog back to the health centre to get a new supply. They need 48 hours notice to write out a new prescription. This is a purely administrative restriction she doesn't have to see a doctor, there is no patient welfare reason for this inconvenience. Last time she was there they said she would have to make an appointment to see the doctor for him to ask if she had any side effects, "But he asked me when I saw him last week ", "that's no good" they said "You have to make an appointment for that express purpose and attend here" "They, (the NHS) come round and inspect our computer to make sure we are doing it".
DG
I know many people who like to drink and socialise, that just will not go into pubs because of the smoke. Socialising at homes is becoming far more common in the UK. Socialising at homes was a thing only people did in films at one time.
Apart from drink driving and killing people, I can't see how an alcoholic affects other people, apart from their immediate family. I worked alongside a man for 5 years and did not know he was an alcoholic. It never affected his work life and he worked very hard.
Apart from Roy Castle, how many people do you
A relative, whoes mother chain smoked from when he was born. The doctors said if his mother did not smoke in front of him when so young his lungs would not be half shot as they now are.
Very true.
We all have to put up with things we find offensive, most of which aren't as clearly defined as smoking. I personally would like Christmas banned, but I think that was tried in the 1920s, and it just drove the evil practice underground. Witch hunts are always a bad sign in a society, especially when there's a deliberate lowering of standards in other areas.
Ah...I remember it well. The girl on acid who slipped and fell over in a pile of vomit at the gig, and got up and said' It's allright. I'm just having a bad trip'
:-)
"stuart noble" clearly defined as smoking. I personally would like Christmas banned,
Christmas does not impair people's health, smoking does.
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