OT Short of news in the UK

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So they took up this one. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17441277 Was on national TV yesterday Astonishing. Armed thug can shoot unarmed innocent teenager in the street and is not arrested right away? Weird. No wonder the world believes America is full of loonys.
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harry wrote:

Yes. Twenty nine of our 50 states (plus DC) have "Stand Your Ground" laws. These laws say you do not have to retreat before using lethal force - assuming further that you have the right to use lethal force.
This is a mere codification of the Common Law found in Anglo jurisprudence since 1216. In the Common Law, however, one had to be in his home or curtilage. This limited provision is classically know as the "Castle Doctrine" (ever man's home is his castle). The "Stand Your Ground" laws expand on this concept to include ANYWHERE you happen to legally be - your car, the street corner, in the dentist's chair - wherever.
As to the shooter not being arrested immediately, this case is no different than if a cop shoots a suspect. There will be an investigation and the results of the investigation will determine whether the shooter was justified in his (stated) belief that he felt his life was in danger.
I would note that, by statute, the UK has done away with the Castle Doctrine, upending 800 years of common sense. Now, if an armed intruder forces his way into a British home, the threatened family must, I repeat, MUST, retreat if at all possible.
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go actively looking for ground to stand on. Be interesting to see if the DA or AG takes this dude to court to see if you can go looking for trouble and pull a gun when you feel threatened because you found it (or it found you.)

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I haven't been following this story but according to the 911 stuff tonight, this guy is going down.
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On Mar 22, 8:03 pm, " snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

I have been following it. The evidence will be presented to a grand jury to determine if charges will be brought. Based on what I've heard so far, I agree the guy is likely to be charged. Some folks just can't wait to jump on the system before letting it play out. And the media can't wait to try to link this somehow to the FL "stand your ground" law. I don't see that as really having any direct bearing on the case.
The guy in question singled the victim out for acting suspicously apparently without any real basis other than he was walking down the street with his hand in his waistband. He called it in to 911 and the 911 operator told him he didn't need to follow the guy. He chose to leave his car and engage him. What followed next is what needs to be determined. But since the kid was 17, didn't look to be very big, and was unarmed, I think the guy is in a heap of trouble and should be. Where in the stand your ground law does it OK that?
Also disturbing is that the guy had called 911 47 times in the last year with similar calls, almost all of which were for bogus nonsense. You have to wonder if the calls were mostly BS, why the police didn't have a talk with him to disuade him from false reporting and to tell him to stop playing cop.
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I believe he was a member of an official police volunteer organization, however. His rank was quoted (captain?). Such groups aren't unusual here. They even have cars in the city I work in now.
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<stuff snipped>

I always thought that would make a great name for a car: The Dodge Vigilante!
FWIW, I agree totally with your definition. So does Merriam Webster:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vigilante
Definition of VIGILANTE : a member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily (as when the processes of law are viewed as inadequate); broadly : a self-appointed doer of justice
Examples of VIGILANTE <the danger of these self-appointed vigilantes is that they sometimes go after innocent people>
Origin of VIGILANTE Spanish, watchman, guard, from vigilante vigilant, from Latin vigilant-, vigilans First Known Use: 1856
Have you seen the promos for the new movie "Lockout?" They stole your idea for a prison in space (I think it was you).
-- Bobby G.
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Wasn't that also more or less the premise for Demolition Man (although they kept the crooksicles closer to home). Sandra Bullock in that tight cop's uniform (sigghhh)

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Kurt Ullman wrote:

You mean like in the movie "Death Wish"?
And isn't that what cops on patrol do?
One day this bold Muscovite shouldered his gun, And walked down the streets with a sneer, He was looking for fun, When he happened to run, Upon Abdul el-BulBul Amir.
"Young man," said BulBul, "Is existence so dull, That you're anxious to finish your career?" "For infidel know, You have tread on the toe, Of Abdul el-BulBul Amir!"
Then a fight broke out. I'll spare you the details since there are (it is reported) over a thousand stanzas to this epic saga.
And, contrary to your assertion, just walking down the streets with a sneer is perfectly legal, whether in Florida or Buffalo. We condem those who claim a rape victim, for instance, "was just asking for it", but there's really nothing wrong with "just asking for it."
Well, maybe one more...
Then this bold Maraluke Drew his trusty Seljuk And shouted "Allah, Akbar! Akbar! Then with murderous intent, He most suddenly went, For Ivan Skavinsky Skivar!
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On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 04:24:30 -0400, "Robert Green"

If you had a Taser, it would be much more appropriate in a situation like Sanford. If the guy coming at you was into body building or boxing, yes, he could take you out with one punch. But . . .
If you are the local vigilante, you should have had at least some basic training on what to do. You should also carry some pepper spray and perhaps a Taser.
It will be interesting to see what the final investigation reveals. At 17, the kid may have been mouthy as many would be, but he does not look like he could be much of a physical threat.
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To me, the telling part of the story is that the shooter followed the kid, rather than let the police handle it. One news outlet, listening last night on the radio. The kid was aware someone was following him. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-father-speaks-defense-son-article-1.1049933 http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57402215/outrage-over-trayvon-martin-shooting-spreads / The news has some details. My sense is that Zimmerman was overly agressive, and my further sense is that Zimmerman didn't have reasonable cause to shoot the kid. However, I'm not given all the details any more than any other viewer at home.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
If you had a Taser, it would be much more appropriate in a situation like Sanford. If the guy coming at you was into body building or boxing, yes, he could take you out with one punch. But . . .
If you are the local vigilante, you should have had at least some basic training on what to do. You should also carry some pepper spray and perhaps a Taser.
It will be interesting to see what the final investigation reveals. At 17, the kid may have been mouthy as many would be, but he does not look like he could be much of a physical threat.
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ALL volunteer watch people are told not to confront anyone (I was on one for a while when we lived on Long Island). I also heard that was the case in Sanford (sp?). Moreover, those watches should not carry any weapons whatsoever. Period. The fact that Zimmerman did carry a firearm, did follow the kid, and did confront him AND struggled with him means to me (but I'm not on the jury) that Zimmerman is guilty as sin.
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I guess when you're doing the watching, you can decide. Me, if I was doing it in a state that allows carry, I'd be carrying. Instead of focusing on the few cases where a person legally carrying created a disaster, you need to look at ALL the cases. And in the big picture, there have been far more cases where just pulling a gun out ended what could have been a serious crime.

The key thing that matters here to me is can you convince a jury that Zimmerman really believed that his life was in jeopardy from a 17 yr old kid that was 100lbs lighter?
There may be some more interesting turns in this story before it's done. Another guy on the neighborhood watch was interviewed and he said Zimmerman was a perfectly reasonable fellow. Never heard any racist remarks. He also said that there had been some recent break-ins in the neighborhood. It's possible Martin could somehow wind up connected to one of them. Not saying he is, just that it was a gated community that he didn't live in and no one has really focused on what exactly he was doing....
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On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 06:45:21 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

He was in the community of family and went to the store for snacks. The original call, it seems, was from someone that was afraid of a black kid walking down the street.
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Where did that come from? Where in the law does it require the victim to weigh precisely the level of force to use?

...or less.
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On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 23:44:36 -0400, " snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

Common sense, not the law. He is an experienced Neighborhood Watch guy that has a record of many encounters. With his experience, he should be able to determine what level of force may be needed. The police do these days, using a Taser instead of a gun in many cases.
The law may be on his side, but is it worth the risk taking a life is something non lethal can solve the problem? Bullets are very permanent in a temporary situation. If the assailant pulled a gun or knife, yes, I'd pull the trigger. Maybe we'll find out some day what really happened.
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member of any official NW. Indeed, from the reports anyway, it sounds like he was the neighbor who was always putting his nose in others business, across the board. I have heard about many times calling cops, but nothing about any other encounters... other than with the police dispatchers.
With his experience, he

got any kind of training from them.

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wrote:

With something like 40+ incidents, he is experienced. He may also be a nut case, I don't know. I'm sure it will be brought out though.
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What incidents? So far it seems like other than this he has mainly just been calling and being a PITA to the cops. Either way, what kind of experience would he have with the use of lethal force. Nobody is suggesting he has shot anyone else.
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That's my take too. What incidents. They said he had called the police 47 times, but that is just calls. I haven't heard anything about him actually engaging, directly confronting anyone other than Martin. He MAY have, but if there is any reports of that, I'd like to see them.
Also, some of that might have bearing on a civil suit. But I don't see it as having any bearing on whether Zimmerman was in fact attacked, getting pummeled, yelling for help, fearing for his life, and justified in shooting.
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