OT Short of news in the UK

The thing the media is glossing over is it was Martin who confronted Zimmermann ("why are you following me" on the phone) and Zimmerman says Martin chased him, towards his truck. It was Zimmerman who had the bloody nose and the cut on the back of his head.

This is a gated neighborhood with no trespassing signs on the fences. Martin climbed over a fence to get there and he was going to have to climb over another fence to get out so he was "suspicious".

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

IF that is true (don't know one way or another, but that is a big fact, which is not yet vetted), that is even more reason to call the cops in and not confront the kid.

First I heard that. Early report was that he was at a house (in the community) watching TV and went to the local store to pick up snacks. I'm sure there will be lots of rumors before we find out any real facts. At 17, he may have been acting like a smart ass kid when confronted (many of us would), but I still have not seen anything to support the need to shoot.

I can see this becoming a major case for many years. It will affect some of the stand your ground laws, racial profiling, etc.

I've heard both versions too, don;t know which is right. A lot of the reports just say he was visiting his father who lived in the community. But that doesn't make it clear if the father actually lived in the GATED community or just lived nearby and the kid was cutting across.

When he apologizes for the Tawana Brawly incident, where he manufactured a totally bogus incident and accused a cop of rape, let us know.

Things are not always what they seem to be...

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Who says? The Long Island police? Well, duh!

innews:V7jbr.107686$ snipped-for-privacy@news.usenetserver.com:

You betcha! I'm not hanging out, unprotected, as the cop's bait.

It would be prudent to listen to the evidence, no?

...and pays Steven Pagonas what he's owed.

" snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

It's what the police everywhere says about citizen neighborhood watch patrols, or whatever they're called. No weapons, walk in pairs.

Ah, so now you have personal experience with *every* police force in the country? Please, go on...

Good find.

That's the best news report I've seen supporting the Zimmerman version. Two interesting things. One is that AFAIK, the coverage of what this witness has to say has been minimal. Second, one would think given all the turmoil surrounding the incident, the police would have said more about exactly what this witness had told them. Maybe they did and that wasn't covered either. The most I had heard before was that they had witness testimony that backed up Zimmerman, but no specifics.

One thing for sure, I would not want to be this witness. He's in a losing position because there are a lot of people with their shorts in a knot that aren't going to want to hear it. Another critical piece of evidence will be the autopsy. If it shows the shooting was at point blank range and trajectory consistent with Zimmerman's account, and the witness is consistent and credible, then I think you have plenty of reasonable doubt.

It is not what they say here

I have not heard that the house Martin was staying in was inside the gates. Where did you hear it. (it was the girl friend's house, Martin lived in Miami)

Agreed, but ties are *supposed* to go to the accused.

Where did that come from? Where in the law does it require the victim to weigh precisely the level of force to use?

...or less.

Perhaps, but you should be doing the tot'n yourself.

Common sense, not the law. He is an experienced Neighborhood Watch guy that has a record of many encounters. With his experience, he should be able to determine what level of force may be needed. The police do these days, using a Taser instead of a gun in many cases.

The law may be on his side, but is it worth the risk taking a life is something non lethal can solve the problem? Bullets are very permanent in a temporary situation. If the assailant pulled a gun or knife, yes, I'd pull the trigger. Maybe we'll find out some day what really happened.

They don't say anything about pairs of people. What they say you CAN do is watch the person until the cops arrive. That is what Zimmerman says he was doing and Martin approached him. That is backed up by the transcript of the phone call with the girl. The first words spoken are "why are you following me" indicating Martin turned and confronted Zimmerman. He also said he knew someone was following and instead of running as his girl suggested or even continuing to walk normally he said he was "walking slower" which sounds like he was trying to close the gap.

I agree 100% that Zimmerman should have done everything possible to maintain at least 25 feet, just from a defense standpoint. The Tueller Drill demonstrates a guy with a knife 21 feet away will close the gap and stab a guy with a gun before you can shoot him. I would want 50-75 feet but his story is Martin was pursuing him as he ran to his truck..