OT: Health insurance

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Ten times isn't close to right:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/business/11leonhardt-avgproptaxrates.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx 76744681-RZ2SkkiiJ9+UrznEUVLEmA <http://tinyurl.com/kuhxfmx
NY: 1.76 NJ: 1.78 AZ: 1.21
These are state averages. My guess, pretty much in line with income.
Of course one should also figure in state income tax and sales tax.
--
Dan Espen

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wrote:

Pretty meaningless chart. The town sets the rate, not the state. Take CT for instance. In my small town in the NE corner, a decent house can be had for $200,000. That same house on the same size lot will be about $800,000 in Greenwich in the opposite corner. Yet they give a single tax rate for the state. We have few millionaires, Greenwich has a half dozen of every block.
Using that same $200k house, taxes in my town are $2400 a year, but one town over, it would be about $3000.
I see New Hampshire has a very high rate. They have no sales tax though so you save about 5% to 8% on the price of a $40,000 car. Not bad.
I see high rates for other states, but what is the price of housing there? Is a 2000 square foot house in Wyoming going to sell for the same as the identical house in Ridgewood, NJ? How about Fortescue, NJ?
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writes:

Tax rate means nothing without knowing how much the house is valued for taxation. Some places assess it at FMV, others at a small fraction of that. And, of course, FMV varies widely from place to place...FMV for something in Hawaii is many times what it would be in, say, Iowa.
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dadiOH
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wrote:

Around here (Cook County, IL) none of that means much. They just manipulate whatever factor needed to get the money they want. My house is worth about $200k on the market. A few years ago it was $400k. Taxes are a few hundred shy of $6k. Every assessment (3 years) I pay a tax lawyer to protest my assessment. The last time I talked to one of his staff and asked why my taxes went up while my "market value" was halved. He said, "They just adjust the rate to get what they want." Since I'm on a fixed income now, taxes are a huge hit. It's mostly "public" worker high pay, and rich pensions causing that from what I see. The only answer I see is to bite the bullet, or move. Haven't decided yet.
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I have the answer for you, Vic. See sig :)
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dadiOH
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On Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:51:35 -0500, Vic Smith

You are exactly right. You are paying in property tax about twice what I pay for what sounds like a slightly less expensive house. And the deal with the politicians just setting the rate to get what they want is what they do in most places to set the tax rate - While people bit and moan over the fed income tax changing a couple percent they don;t even pay attention when the local city councils, county boards, and school districts raise tax RATES by double digits. My taxes on my house went up 15% in one years time. My income sure as hell didn't.
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wrote:

Those are just the state tax rate and without knowing how they assess value that data is useless. In AZ the Assessed value can be considerably LOWER then the actual value. So what's the setup in NY, is the tax applied to an arbitrary lower value, as in AZ or to the actual price the home would sell for? Those number also do not include all the special taxing districts, country tax, city tax, school tax, bonds and on and on. You need to compare the actual TOTAL property tax bill of a typical 2000 sf house in a typical NJ medium sized city to the same 2000 sf house in another state to get the real picture.
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I'm in NJ.
Same deal, house is assessed for a lot less than market value.
I understand the possible limitations of that chart. There are a lot of variables to consider.
There were a lot of sites with comparisons of state tax rates. Feel free to reference others if that one doesn't suit your viewpoint.
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Dan Espen

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On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 08:14:46 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

The police and fire people work??? That's a laugh. They are the most overpaid and under worked "labor class" in the country. A study some years back showed that the vast majority of "on the job injuries" for fireman were injuries they got at the fire house playing volleyball and such between calls. Some of them spend half their PAID shift sleeping. Cops spend a huge chunk of their time driving cars around accomplishing nothing. And state troupers spend almost all their time burning up gas harassing motorists. When we had a big budget crunch in the past several years the highway patrol had to stop doing so much wasteful driving - no one noticed the change in service. One of the local PDs that had to reduce staff for the past several years studied the result and could find zero evidence of any actual reduction in service that resulted in anything, no change whatsoever in crime rates, just an increase of a minute or so in responding to calls. The police and fire in cities of any size are all unionized which means all they care about is doing as little as possible for the most amount of money and protection from being fired no matter how much they screw up.
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I don't know which is more economical: providing affordable housing or dealing with all the wonderful side effects of having thousands of homeless people wandering the street...of course since all homeless must by definition be liberals, at least they don't vote
So should food.

I'd have to posit that the problem with public education may well be a symptom of bureaucracy, but my experience clearly shows that the vast majority of parents increasingly take less and less interest and involvement in their childrens education UNTIL one comes home with info that the parents forgot to grace them with
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Ever hear of repeating a grade? I haven’t in fifty years.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

you haven't heard of it, or you haven't done it?
in any event, exactly what has that got to do with my point?
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On 08-16-2013 07:30, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

The 2000+ page bill did not pass. The one that did pass was WAY too thick but it was much smaller than 2000 pages.
--
Wes Groleau

“In the field of language teaching, Method A is the logical
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My poor lil feelings are hurt that nobody followed up on my post (in earlier car insurance thread which quickly became a classic example of thread drift).
There were many personal anecdotes of experiences with the health care system, military and civilian, but nobody really addressed the topic of medical care which in the U.S. is commodified as an "industry" rather than a public good.
Here goes:
"When I was living in Europe, a member of my family was treated, long-term, for a very serious condition, without a penny of cost, even though neither of us was a national of that country.
Allow me to reiterate that physicians in many developed countries -- I only know specifically about European countries, so am extrapolationg -- complete their medical studies at government expense.
No sky-high tuition bills from for-profit universities. No crushing debt load for the first 15-20 years of practice. No wild divergence in physician-hospital fees between practitioners and institutions. No drive to specialize in big money practices like plastic surgery. In return,physician obliged to devote 'n' years to (more or less) government assigned practice, meaning often working in under-served communities.
Sounds like a win-win to me. In those countries, health care is not considered an "industry" --I wince every time I hear that term --but a public good.
Those governments must have figured out that $1 spent on preventive health care and affordable care for existing conditions saves $100's of dollars down the line in social costs that we pay out of our other tax pocket."
The usual comments on this kind of suggestion lean heavily to "...they have to wait months/years for a procedure... whereas we in the US can get it fast .
Yeah, sure, if you have insurance or can pay out of pocket. If not, you're basically fracked. Leaves out a large segment of the population
The public seems to have a very hard time understanding that if we don't emphasize preventive care*, and don't make medical care available to all, we pay for it ANYWAY in the form of social costs for damage done to and/or by impaired individuals who didn't get care in time.
*For just ONE example: In most "developed" countries, qualified professionals follow new mothers and babies in their homes for a period after the birth to make sure there are no complications. In the U.S., where childbirth for a while was handled like a McDonald's drive-through until outrage forced some retrenchment, there were many cases of babies having to be rushed back to the hospital because of undiagnosed post-natal problems. Enormous cost that could have been avoided by a much less expensive program as described above.
(steps down from podium)
HB
It's probably not possible to have any kind of rational discussion on the subject right now although I know that the Chautauqua Institution (summer camp for adults) has courageously chosen the subject for discussion all of next week and they work hard to have useful "civil discussions" on their topics. See: http://www.ciweb.org/education-lectures-week-nine/ There are summaries of the topics in the daily newspaper (free) at: http://chqdaily.com/download/ if you are interested in what was said. I'm sure there are better ways to deliver health care to the U.S. population with less cost and better quality than we have now; but, sadly, few seem to know how to make that happen or want to get beyond the politics.
Tomsic
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In theory, it is possible to have a rational discussion. However, that's not likely to happen in the USA. I've found that liberals operate on emotion,and conservatives operate on rational thinking. When a conservative asks what has worked overseas, or asks if such a plan has been tried before, he is met with overwhelming shouts of "starving children" and "dead babies" from he left.
I hope the camp has some kind of rational discussion. However, if they do, the politicians of the USA will drown them out with screams of dead babies and starving children.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
On 8/16/2013 8:15 AM, Tomsic wrote:

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On 8/16/2013 7:30 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

One of the "Occupy WTF" kids was asked what form of government he supported and he replied that it was Communism. When he was told that Communism was a failure and it had collapsed in most places it was tried, his answer was "We can do it better." O_o
TDD
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On 08-16-2013 08:30, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I've found that neither extreme places any great value on rational thinking.
--
Wes Groleau

“There are more people worthy of blame
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On Sat, 17 Aug 2013 02:08:35 -0400, Wes Groleau

My side does. It is the other side that is always wrong!
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I've often said that. The older I get, the more true it becomes.
. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .
On 8/17/2013 8:11 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

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Agreed (if you're talking about hard-line "wingnuts" of any party - let not forget libertarians!).
SM seems to conveniently forget Republican transgressions when enumerating the sins of people he clearly doesn't like. He forgets Boehner jumping on the "save Terri Schiavo" bandwagon and invading that family's personal grief so they could "save" a certified brain-dead woman from a liberal "murder plot" - as emotional a basis of action as you can get.
The bottom line is that all political parties are composed of human beings who do very human things. To claim one side is superior just isn't credible and contributes to people forming poor opinions of SM.
I admire you for trying to illuminate SM's understanding of the world, Wes, but I suspect you will get no farther than you might by throwing a potato chip.
--
Bobby G.




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