None of which has anything to do with the issue. Parents are paying taxes, a substantial portion of which go towards public education. When they are denied a choice of where to educate their children, then they are helping to pay to educate everyone else's children and also paying entirely for their own children. Nothing fair about that. You also seem to neglect the fact that kids only stay in public school for 13 years. If you're 65 years old, you've been paying property taxes, sales taxes, income taxes, whatever for a hell of a lot longer than 13 years. And that indeed would have more than paid to educate a couple of kids.
And as far as money goes, the liberal solution is to just keep pouring even more money into failed public schools. In NJ, for decades now, courtesy of a screwly liberal NJ Supreme Court, we've been pouring far more money per student into Camden, Asbury Park, etc as we are into most of the wealthiest towns in the state. The kids are still dumb as ever.
Sure, but over time. The cost of a student in our schools was said to be $5000. My two kids spent a total of 9 years in public schools (the rest was private schools). It is about 18 years of my tax dollars to educate them. But I've been paying property taxes for 47 years.
The tax funded public shools did not educate them as well as the cheaper to operate private schools that I paid for though. Public schools are not a good value in our experience, but that varies in each location.
actually it's the conservatives that are afraid that in giving the masses a better education might give them the idea that such things as early voting are good ideas, or that they might not approve the regional oligarchies.
the real flaw with vouchers is that it's just another method of funneling more money to the wealthy and still keeping the masses uneducated: how long before the free market raises the price of admission and the "rich" that could always afford it just chuck in the difference while the "masses" are still stuck where they've always been stuck?
I mean, in that particular free market just what are the forces that would tend to lower the cost of admission?
No, but most of the systems I am familiar with put out a specific amount of money that the state pays to the school for the kid. (Indiana schools send things home to parents pleading to make sure their kids get to schools the one day the state does the headcount and decides what the schools get). THAT is the amount of money that goes in on vouchers (at least in Indiana).
They stretched things more than a rubber band, e.g., "2) the vouchers were given to the parents"; they didn't think that the money was eventually going to wind up with a school?? They could skip a school and opt for a new TV?
Just more affirmative action (of which I also don't approve)..."providing educational assistance to poor children in a demonstrably failing public school system".
Although they said, "4) parents who received vouchers were not required to enroll in a religious-based school", better than 90% did. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... ____________________
Dozens of wrongs don't make a right. BTW, what are you doing that so severly screws up word wrap? _________________________
Yes
I saw nothing that even *hinted* at that.
It seems I have been misinformed. I thought it was the conservative republicans that were rich.
Of course they have a choice; all they have to do is pony up the tuition. Ditto the poor white families. ___________________
Umm, because they are PUBLIC? _________________
Better to fix the schools that need fixing. Not all that hard...teachers that can teach, kids that want to learn. _______________
No it isn't But the net result is that government IS subsidising religion. ____________________
s/schisms and their ferocious hatred for each other is replete with every f orm of abuse, including, inter alia, torture, murder, population displaceme nt and genocide. The millennial historical record -- not a matter of opini on.
Which passages in the Koran are we talking about? Out of my (non) encyclop ediac (sp?)knowledge of their "holy book" I can tell you there are passages that allow them to call it a "religion of peace". So the violent follow t he passages that fit their world view, and the non-violent follow theirs.
Important to note that when 9/11 went down, perfectly innocent American Mus lims were viciously attacked. Just like in 1963, cars with Texas plates we re vandalized. (for those who don't get the reference: The Kennedy assass ination)
I suspect that many, if not most, American Muslims took their religion as c asually as most American Christians -- and Jews! take theirs. (The vast maj ority of American Catholics practice birth control, for example.)
For most American Muslims, it was just something you did; go to church/mosq ue, say prayers, give charity; use the respective house of worship as a com munity gathering place to find mates for your children, cut business deals, socialize. Just like other religions. Who had any incentive to rock the American boat?
Their founding myth is no more bizarre than that of the Christians (or, you could argue, ours.) One of the more bizarre founding myths is of a contem porary American religion less than 200 years old.
Radicalized young men with raging hormones and no civilized way to express them are the same all over the world. In the US and the "developed" world, there is a civil society which acts to some extent as a constraint and the re is (or was!) work which gave people a sense of self-worth.
In the Muslim world which is overwhelmingly religion-authoritarian based, t here IS no civil society, ergo no such constraint. On the contrary, in mos t of these countries, the Islamist world view teaches hatred of the West fr om early childhood. Muslims who want to liberate their religion from shari 'a have to do their work from London.
Government represents all the people. Prayer at government places is almost invariably Christian; oh, they might toss in a rabbi once in a while, depending on the location but at best it is Judeo-Christian.
What of the atheists like me? What of the agnostics like my wife (she is really an atheist, just too chicken to say so)? Where are the Buddhist prayer wheels? And the animists? Who speaks for them? What of Madam Pele? I don't see those government folks sacrificing a bottle of gin for her (not in public at least) or even sticking a ti leaf under a rock.
That's because they are non-profit, spending what they get for the public good. As far as churches being non-profit, that's fine with me as long as they also spend it for the public good regardless of affiliation of the beneficiaries; anything else other than donations, tax the suckers!
Fortunately. But there are many that would disagree with you, they consider it to be a Christian nation. Under god, yet.
"Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" wrote in news:atlas-bugged- snipped-for-privacy@free.teranews.com:
Clearly a load of nonsense. Just look at which groups are on which side of the issue: who is it that wants to keep low-income children trapped in failing public school systems, and who is that want to give them a way out?
Hint: it's not the conservatives who are trying to keep these kids from getting a decent education.
that's just their "public" persona. why educate the masses that you need to provide labor for your oligarchy? not to mention all the money they make from building sub-standard schools, publishing text-books and selling all those school supplies
Or they are so focused on not getting evicted that they find little time to devote to their children. They can't get good jobs because they aren't educated. So they work two jobs and the kids raise themselves. Which puts the kids into the same position.
So how about we help both groups to be better parents? Otherwise the descendants of the first group will eventually be in the second group.
ups/schisms and their ferocious hatred for each other is replete with every form of abuse, including, inter alia, torture, murder, population displace ment and genocide. The millennial historical record -- not a matter of opi nion.
opediac (sp?)knowledge of their "holy book" I can tell you there are passag es that allow them to call it a "religion of peace". So the violent follow the passages that fit their world view, and the non-violent follow theirs.
There are passages in Mein Kampf that one could use to call that a work of peace too.
uslims were viciously attacked.
Which of course has nothing to do with anything. The Muslim extremists believe it's OK to kill anyone, including their own, in the name of Islam.
Just like in 1963, cars with Texas plates were vandalized. (for those who don't get the reference: The Kennedy assassination)
Nice going. You've earned the village idiot of the day award for that lame attempt at lib moral equivalency.
casually as most American Christians -- and Jews! take theirs. (The vast m ajority of American Catholics practice birth control, for example.)
sque, say prayers, give charity; use the respective house of worship as a c ommunity gathering place to find mates for your children, cut business deal s, socialize. Just like other religions. Who had any incentive to rock th e American boat?
What you "imagine" has no relevancy.
ou could argue, ours.) One of the more bizarre founding myths is of a cont emporary American religion less than 200 years old.
s them are the same all over the world. In the US and the "developed" worl d, there is a civil society which acts to some extent as a constraint and t here is (or was!) work which gave people a sense of self-worth.
More moral equivalency and attempt at justification nonsense.
there IS no civil society, ergo no such constraint.
Oh my God, if a conservative or Republican ever said that, it would be used as an example of bigoted intolerance. At the very least, it is totally ignorant.
On the contrary, in most of these countries, the Islamist world view teac hes hatred of the West from early childhood. Muslims who want to liberate their religion from shari'a have to do their work from London.
For our lib from NJ, who thinks NJ is just peachy keen with regard to taxes, I have a 3100 sf house with a market value of about $550K and I' m paying $11,000/yr. And just for comparison, we have a 7% sales tax, an income tax that most people are paying 3%+, to a max of 8%, taxes on the transfer of real estate (separate from any capital gains, which you also pay tax in NJ on), a special 1% tax on the full amount of any house sale over $1 mil, etc.
That actually falls into two categories. The uneducated and low income workers that have to work two jobs to keep a modest apartment and 10 year old car.
The other group is the good income couple that has a huge house they don't need, a Beemer and huge SUV and can barely make the mortgage and are maxed out on credit cards.
Same results, but one couple just looks prettier waiting for the sheriff
Probably too late to do anything for the parents, but you can hopefully get the kids to understand they have to make a life for themselves and they can control their own destiny.
That's a very hard cycle to interrupt. For a while, good manufacturing jobs that paid very well allowed a lot of people to enter the middle class and take their children along with them. That path for upward mobility it slowly closing out in America and our politicians should be hard at work figuring out how to maintain American prosperity. That's a tall order in a world where rising industrial states like China and India are exerting enormous downward pressure on American wages.
I have watched rather closely how the state tries to rehabilitate a neighbor crack addict and mother of two. The only thing that I am sure of is that kids need to be taken away from clearly drug-addled parents, and maybe forever. Harsh? Yes, but these kids aren't getting parenting - they're just living with someone that has similar DNA. Until the courts say "putting this kid back with its biological parent is not good for it" and make it stick, the cycle will continue.
Temporary unemployment could be a boon instead of a drain. Anyone getting UI needs to be either cleaning streets or getting some sort of education certification that might lead to a better job than street sweeping. Paying able-bodied people to stay home and watch cable should never happen yet it does, time and time again.
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