OT: Health insurance

[Stormin Mormon]

I didn't know he was a proctologist? Gives a special view of the world, looking up every day.

. Christ> >>

[recyclebinned]

?As if govt is soooo efficient and economical. If it is, why are we getting crushed to death here in NJ with some of the highest property taxes in the country? Why is California, which is closest to socialist Europe, almost bankrupt? ?

Because all the tax money in those states is going to fund the lazy incompe tent government union workers? fat pensions and completely free health ca re and I don?t mean the police and fire workers who actually work.

?And why is it that the free market system can deliver a hamburger, an automobile or auto insurance at reasonable prices??

Stuff that nobody really needs or want or gets screwed by. If you?re too incompetent to cook your own hamburger then you shouldn?t be allowed to l ive. The automobiles are designed for idiot gadget junkies. They?re full of BS stuff that has nothing to do with getting from one place to another but wi ll cost you thousands of dollars to have repaired so the companies can at l ast make the profit that they didn?t make when they sold the vehicle. As soon as there is an accident the first thing that the insurance company lawyers try to do is to see where they can find a loophole in which fine pr int so that they don?t have to pay. People only think they have insurance . In reality the only thing the insurance card is good for is so you can re new your registration and not get a citation. ?Then housing should be a non-profit public good too. So should food. How about clothing? Then we have some examples of things that are run by the govt that aren't doing their job.?

Housing, food and clothing are not exigencies like health care. Not having them isn?t like being bitten by a snake, rushed to the hospital and getti ng a bill for $55,000 because they can and your only choices are to pay or die.

?Where does the USA public schools rank today in terms of educating our children??

U.S. public schools are a complete failure due to the teachers unions being given anything they want by the politicians.

?Obamacare was providing insurance to what, 30mil people? So, to fix a "problem" for 10% of the population, you don't care what happens to the other 90%??

That so called 90% was either at some point in the 10%, is in the 10% but w on?t know it until his policy is cancelled due to some loop-hole or will be in the 10% when they get laid-off because the CEO has stolen all the com pany money and went to Bermuda on his yacht.

?Also, witness that this recovery is unique in that most of the jobs being created are part-time. Why do you think that is??

There are several reasons for that:

1. Failure of the public school system and society in general to emphasize STEM.
2. The U.S. government kissing Chinese dumplings.
3. Tax breaks for companies that outsource.
4. Not holding CEOs accountable to making a profit for their companies inst ead of themselves.

[ChairMan]

In news: [e-mail], Ashton Crusher belched:

[McFat Food]

Ever notice all the 400lb+ McFatass double-wide tub-o-guts riding around Walmart on those electric scooters? (You usually see them in the Krispy Kreme isle, seldom in the fresh produce section.)

Well, if you work and pay taxes, you should be appalled. You are paying for their healthcare. Obesity, heart disease, liver disease and high blood pressure are mostly caused by eating sugary food.

[trader4]

There is obviously a whole LOT more than that one point which is preventing healthcare reform.

[trader4]

If that's the case, why do so many people when they are facing serious illnesses, come to the USA to be treated? I'm very satisfied with the healthcare that I have received. Now the cost of it, the cost of insurance, that's a different issue.

There is no better descriptive word in my

Then change doctors. I don't have mine selling products. Unless you mean telling people to take BP medication or statins. If it's that, then it's also the govt too, because they are very much behind the recommendations for most of the most popular drugs.

Need something for "horrible" hot flashes?

And what would you do? Tell those needing bypass surgery to die instead? That's your idea of good healthcare?

If you live long enough to grow some cataracts,

Good grief! Cataract surgery is one of the lowest cost. It's what, maybe $3000? And if Russia is a great model for healthcare, when people are seriously sick, why doesn't anyone go there?

Well, of course. They are worried because they have to pay for it. And they aren't worried about whether their care was of good quality or appropriate, most likely because they are satisfied with it. Do you bitch about everything or just what you think is a problem?

[trader4]

petent government union workers? fat pensions and completely free health care and I don?t mean the police and fire workers who actually work.

Yes, that's a big part of it and precisely my point.

Good grief. Nobody needs a car, car insurance, or food? The point went right over your head. The price of all kinds of goods and services in a free market economy is at a reasonable level. We need to understand why those same free market forces are not working in healthcare.

If you?re too incompetent to cook your own hamburger then you shouldn? t be allowed to live.

BS stuff that has nothing to do with getting from one place to another but will cost you thousands of dollars to have repaired so the companies can at last make the profit that they didn?t make when they sold the vehicle.

y lawyers try to do is to see where they can find a loophole in which fine print so that they don?t have to pay. People only think they have insuran ce. In reality the only thing the insurance card is good for is so you can renew your registration and not get a citation.

g them isn?t like being bitten by a snake, rushed to the hospital and get ting a bill for $55,000 because they can and your only choices are to pay o r die.

Total nonsense. Food, housing and clothing are every bit as necessary as healthcare. And the being bitten by a snake and having some critical urgent need is but one small part of the overall cost of healthcare.

ng given anything they want by the politicians.

won?t know it until his policy is cancelled due to some loop-hole or wil l be in the 10% when they get laid-off because the CEO has stolen all the c ompany money and went to Bermuda on his yacht.

stead of themselves.

Sure dream on. And the fact that they can avoid providing health insurance mandated by Obamacare isn't the big factor? All the things you listed, not that I agree with them, have been around for decades. Yet, only now are we having a weak recovery with part time jobs.

[The Daring Dufas]

Well McFat Head, Neal Boortz complained about the fat asses cruising around Wally World on the electric scooters during broadcasts on his radio talk show. The electric scooter game is one very big scam making a lot of money for scooter companies. O_o

I'm disabled and died of a heart attack, some fantastic paramedics brought me back. I never wanted to be on disability but when I became so weak and ill, I had no choice. The cardiologist sent me home to die but I refuse to. I actually get out and help my roommate on service calls even though I hurt like hell. The work I do with my roommate for free allows him to make money and pay taxes on it. So I guess I'm actually giving back. I refuse to sit on my butt or lay down and die. ^_^

TDD

[dadiOH]

I wonder how big a part insurance plays in that attitude? For example, a visit to a specialist doesn't put much in his pocket unless he does "procedures". The more procedures the more $$.

I wish people would also concern themselves with how much their insurance company is paying the docs.

A few years back I needed epidural steroid shots for my back. The pain doc (who said he had done 40,000 of them) used a local, then the shot by feel. NP, easy peasy. Cost, $100; good pay for 10 minutes but not unreasonable IMO.

A couple of years later I needed some more. New insurance company, new doc. His procedure...

1. PA from Ecuador sets up an IV. When "the great one" (main doc) is ready, PA gives me a general via the IV. 2. While I'm out, main doc does the epidural using a fluroscope to guide him. 3. PA wakes me up with something else through the IV.

This doc collects $500+ from the insurance company. I have no objection to the fluroscope but a general?? Doing so allows him to collect for more "procedures". Did I mention he didn't bother with a bandaid and I bled through my shirt? Or that I was punchy for 2-3 hours from the anesthesia? I won't be going to him again.

One more example...stress test (chemical, not treadmill): all told, it took about 3 hours, 80% waiting for this and that, the other 20% with PAs. At the end, I saw the cardiologist for maybe 10 minutes top to to hear his interpretation of the results. He billed the insurance company almost $10,000, no idea how much they actually paid but I haven't been back and won't be.

It seems to me that the medical practioners have an inflated idea of what they are worth; it also seems to me that insurance companies should be saying (to the docs) things like, "You want HOW much??" and, "Whoa, bubba, just a minute there..."

One thing for sure: if there were no insurance the doctors would be getting a lot less.

[Dan Espen]

I reject your premise.

Taxes are in line with salaries paid in the area.

I don't see how the verb "crushed" applies. NJ is a great place to live.

[Frank]

I don't know about the rest of Europe but in the UK your company will give you extra health insurance or you can pay extra to get the kind of prompt and excellent treatments we get in the US.

If you don't believe me, Google it up.

Came up several months ago when someone in a group I consult for had resigned to go in business for himself.

Someone else told me that he would lose his health insurance. I said, "Wait a minute, I thought it was free." Then it was explained to me.

[dadiOH]

More like $1000. At least that was what it was a handful of years ago when I had my left eye done. Not exorbitant but also not bad pay for less than

1/2 hour.

And, of course, the insurance paid more for the treatment for the retinal tear and macular swelling. Not blaming the doc, those things happen. ________________

A number of years ago I had an opthamologist friend who set up a clinic to do nothing but cataract surgery, all Medicare. He hired 5-6 other docs, shuffled the patients back and forth by limosine. They were rolling in money.

[Norminn]

Well, starting with basic physicals, immunizations, accident and illness coverage would do for me. Forget organ transplants, other than kidney and cornea....need other, hold a fund raiser. My logic tells me that all humans should receive basic care....when it comes to extreme measures, it seems selfish to burn huge resources on some when other people don't have anything. In a one-for-all system, I would not cover fertility treatments, esp. artificial insem. that results in litters of babies requiring intensive care for months. I could also live with euthanasia, as long as it was chosen a certain number of years prior and selected by a mentally competent adult. Who wants to live for 10 years beyond the time they lose their entire mental capacity to Alzheimers?

[Norminn]

One of the better features of Canadian healthcare is their system for handling medical malpractice. So, one has to wait six months for a hip or knee replacement? Lose weight and exercise to get in shape for it. Probably took 50-60 years to wear out the first one :o)

[Kurt Ullman]

As a serious question, how does one define and then quantify " in line with salaries"?

[Kurt Ullman]

It was something like $1500 an eye (for two) last year. I don't know if it might have been slightly more expensive because of the lenses they put corrected for my nearsightedness.

>

[Norminn]

It's been well over $3000 per eye in my neighborhood for a long time, but there is a local monopoly.

[Malcom "Mal" Reynolds]

How strange that the liberals in CA decided decades ago to put a "cap" on property taxes

and before you start about CA being Bankrupt, it has problems, but they have mostly been dealt with

[Malcom "Mal" Reynolds]

I don't know which is more economical: providing affordable housing or dealing with all the wonderful side effects of having thousands of homeless people wandering the street...of course since all homeless must by definition be liberals, at least they don't vote

So should food.

I'd have to posit that the problem with public education may well be a symptom of bureaucracy, but my experience clearly shows that the vast majority of parents increasingly take less and less interest and involvement in their childrens education UNTIL one comes home with info that the parents forgot to grace them with

[dadiOH]

Yep. Of course, that was over his entire career thus far (he was about 50 I'd judge); still a bunch.

I don't recall how long but a few months. Felt like someone had whacked me across the lower back with a bat. Initially, I went to my internist thinking I had nephritis, he said not, wanted me to wait a bit to see if it got better; when it didn't he ordered an MRI and after seeing it referred me to the pain doc.

I had three shots a week apart. The pain diminished with each, totally left shortly after the third. That lasted for 15-18 months. After it returned, I had three more from the other, $500, doc. Those lasted about 15 months. When the pain returned it wasn't as severe as initially and since I knew I was changing insurance plans and since I didn't care for doc #2 I decided to wait 3-4 months for the insurance plan change. Glad I did as the pain left all by itself. No idea why as I'm sure the stenosis still exists.

Same thing happened with my neck; for several weeks/months I could barely turn my head. It too resolved itself. ____________________

A tetanus shot is at least as bad as an epidural. ____________________

I have a childhood friend in KC who is a doctor. He opted for the surgery, now regrets it, is as bad or worse than he was. Between knife and needle, I'd take needle everytime. __________________

I don't care where he is, $10K is way too much for what was done.

Well, the PA was all aghast, wanted to schedule me for an immediate balloon angioplasty. Scared the bejeezus out of me. Fortunately, the cardiologist pooh-poohed the idea, said there was some blockage but not enough to worry about it. He still isn't worth $10k :)

No angina, PCP wanted the stress test when I first became borderline diabetic, said diabetics were automatically heart patients too.