Antifreeze - not just for cars

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The function of water in a P-trap is to prevent sewer gases rising into the house. It is cheaper to refill the traps with non-freezing liquid than to chance months' exposure of soft furnishings to sewer gases, which is likely to be incurable.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

the traps WILL break duh.
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If I put liquid in a glass jar, but leave enough headroom and don't tighten the lid, I can put that jar in the freezer and the jar won't break because there's room for expansion. With me so far?
After I run water in my sink or tub, the pipes end up empty except for a very small amount in the U-shaped trap. Since there's plenty of room for expansion (above and below), why should there be a problem? It certainly couldn't HURT to use the anti-freeze, but the OP didn't mention shutting off the water and draining the pipes. Seems to me that's where the real problems will occur, since those pipes are under pressure and sealed (until they break).
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I've had glass crack, in the freezer. Many years ago, and my parents were not pleased. Admittedly it was a full glass bottle with a cap screwed on. I'm fairly sure ice expands sidways, so it would crack in any case.
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Christopher A. Young
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The Ball canning guide says otherwise. Many uncracked jars in my freezer over the years are also evidence to the contrary. But this doesn't matter. If you think there is NOT room for expansion in the u-shaped drain traps, I really want to hear about it. I'm a very curious guy.

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wrote:

JSB & CY-
I've frozen a few things in glass over the years in the freezer and outside.....jsut a curious kid with an understanding dad.
My comment is...if the glass has any importance, dont do it.
Sometimes they break but most of the time they don't. I think it has to do with the shape of the containter AND with how (from where) it starts to freeze. My theory is, if the top froze first, it created a "cap" and didnt allow the ice to grow in height.
CY- When water freezes it expansion in all directions. Just like when a homogeneous material (like a block of metal) is subject to unifrom heating, it grows in all three axes.
But lets not get started on a discussion of what happens when a metal washer is heated.... :)
cheers Bob
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JSB & CY-
I've frozen a few things in glass over the years in the freezer and outside.....jsut a curious kid with an understanding dad.
My comment is...if the glass has any importance, dont do it.
Sometimes they break but most of the time they don't. I think it has to do with the shape of the containter AND with how (from where) it starts to freeze. My theory is, if the top froze first, it created a "cap" and didnt allow the ice to grow in height.
CY- When water freezes it expansion in all directions. Just like when a homogeneous material (like a block of metal) is subject to unifrom heating, it grows in all three axes.
But lets not get started on a discussion of what happens when a metal washer is heated.... :)
cheers Bob
+++
I don't intentionaly do it, but as I remember, if you freeze water in a glass (open or closed), it can break. Probably determined by the strength of the glass.
Jim
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That's ballsy!
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Christopher A. Young
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JSB & CY-
I've frozen a few things in glass over the years in the freezer and outside.....jsut a curious kid with an understanding dad.
My comment is...if the glass has any importance, dont do it.
Sometimes they break but most of the time they don't. I think it has to do with the shape of the containter AND with how (from where) it starts to freeze. My theory is, if the top froze first, it created a "cap" and didnt allow the ice to grow in height.
CY- When water freezes it expansion in all directions. Just like when a homogeneous material (like a block of metal) is subject to unifrom heating, it grows in all three axes.
But lets not get started on a discussion of what happens when a metal washer is heated.... :)
cheers Bob
=========
Let's introduce the mineral content of the water in question.
Or not. :-)
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It rained this afternoon. The radio says tonight a couple inches of snow. That should turn the roads into either ice, or salt water to rust out the cars.
Thursday night going into Friday is forecast very windy, and bitter cold. I'm hoping against hope that there is no water damage. And that the house remains above freezing temp. I'm not really optomistic. It was 38F or so when we left.
Wish there were more mineral in the domestic water. I'll take all the help I can get, at present. I wonder if we can fill the water pipes with salt brine. Most likely that would do more damage than filling with RV antifreeze some how. Sigh.
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DD_BobK wrote:

water expands 4% when it freezes
paul
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Congress expands 14% when elected. Minimum.
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Christopher A. Young
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On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:45:35 -0500, Paul Oman wrote:

The obvious solution to cure freezing pipework is to just use pipes that are 4% wider, then.
;-)
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Would that mean 1.04/2 or maybe 3.12/4 inch copper?
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Christopher A. Young
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Then why is ~10% of an iceberg above the surface of the water?
4% relative to what?
cheers Bob
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4% relative to what?
cheers Bob
Volume? What do I win?
Steve
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I would have thought that water would expand in three directions, in the process of freezing. It's an interesting concept. For now, I'm doing what I can to help prevent damage to the house.
The expanding washer is intersting, too. But, for later, as you say.
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wrote:

I assist with the maintenance at several church summer camps. Anytime we do not antifreeze the traps they break. When that U shaped slug of water freezes it expands in all directions and fractures the traps. Your theory doesn't work in the real world. We blow all of the supply lines down with compressed air so we have no trouble with those. -- Tom Horne
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We have done that, excepting the blowing out of lines. I have suggested that, but not yet got approval. I hope you're richly blessed, for your help in spreading the gospel.
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Joe, you said it, therefore it must be true. I guess I didn't crawl in the mud under my cabin and replace a burst P trap. Must been one of those Ambien dreams.
Steve
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