The Wreck - And Politics - And A New Pledge

Over the course of the past few months I have initiated a number of threads about Politics.

In some cases I just sailed off the paper airplane and watched what happened.

In other instances I have provided interlinear encouragement to keep the thread active.

Th Debil made me do it.

During the same compass of time I have started threads that were solely about WoodDorking.

While the Political threads bloomed and branched, in sum total creating over a thousand responses - the WoodDorking threads yielded less than a hundred.

We pretend, us Wreckers, to despise the intercession of the Politic - yet we jump all over it like a starving dog on a meatwagon.

We lie to ourselves.

From November of 1994 until three months ago, I said nary a word about Politics on the Wreck.

On the odd instance that I referred to it at all, it was with disapprobation.

Still, we stewed in the discussions from time to time and all of us were culpable.

Do I think that the Wreck should be "Politics Free"? Of course not. That would be unnatural - and I have always found the Wreck to be the most natural realm of public discourse - given that its main intent is that of WoodDorking.

I have heard the Wreck described as a neigborhood tavern, mostly frequented by WoodDorkers.

I have seen it described as a simulacrum of a country store, with a fine pot-bellied stove, around which we all gather to spin our tales and trade information - mostly about WoodDorking.

Most of us had Mommas that educated us to the degree that we would not introduce The Big Three into conversations with either strangers or friends - Sex, Religion, and Politics. Lordy, were we not paying attention?

Y'all do what you want - my personal experiment with talking Politics on the Wreck is over.

You have my personal pledge that I will not initiate, nor will I respond to any thread that has to do with Politics.

However, it would be nice, if the next time that someone starts a thread about Design, or Joinery, or Finishing - that the Group, as a whole, showed it the same level of involvement that has heretofore been resrved for Politics, or Religion, or Sex.

MHO

YMMV

Regards, Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

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Reply to
Tom Watson
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Yabbut, wreckers engaged in a political discussion, even a heated one, is one thing, ... the bickering with trolls who have never posted an on topic message is something else entirely.

Reply to
Swingman

...we're in to that season where not much wood to fashion (seems to lend itself to winter time when not much else to do unless you are a Packer fan and you may want to take out your frustrations on a piece of stock now), deer season ain't open yet unless you want to climb a tree with a bow and arrow, and we're coming up on a prez election...give it a few weeks and all this will go away and we can return to the things that matter.

all IMHO of course

Reply to
Tom Kohlman

I would vote for having sex with politicians, but it's against my religion.

Reply to
Silvan
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I entirely agree (with all you said actually) because I need more attention in this group as a learner, than most people care to give. Sometimes it is really a bummer about that. Too many people that can offer professional advice simply ignore me. Drat!

Alex

Reply to
AAvK

Quoting Pogo seems apropos. "We have met the enemy, and he is us." Or maybe Euripides has a more accurate assessment of what's going on?

Reply to
patrick conroy

I adjusted my table saw today after moving it to a new house. It had moved approx 0.030" out of square. With Mr.Bennet's fancy tool I managed to get the miter slot to within 0.5 though front to back (of the blade) and the fence to within 1.5 thou, falling wider at the back of the blade. Took all of about ten minutes....damn I like that TS Aligner Jr!

Now...it's onto the jointer.

Crap...did I just start another Bennet thread?

I also had to cut my Fine woodworking pipe-clamp bench from it's original 8' to a new 5' in order to fit it in the shop. In so doing I removed the long clamps as I never used them anyways and I installed a knock off or a Record

7" vise that I picked up for $30 CDN.... The bench seems quite happy, I managed to keep the planing bean and it actually went together again like it was meant to be. Imagine that.

Yesterday I got together with a couple of other guys and we milled a domestic cherry using an Alaskan chain-sawmill. That was cool and enjoyable, but what's cooler. is the 12/4 thick 16" wide 7' long slab I have in my carport...that cost $0. I have three years to think of a project for it. Also have some very nice pieces of spalted cottonwood...thinking boxes perhaps?

Had a friend pick up some Bessey 24" clamps for $25 each...Canadian. Yup, they're new. Seems HD up here is trading brands and were blowing them out. He went store-to-store-to store and bought 34 of them on spec. They're all gone now...

I asked my wife to go out and get some wood glue the other day and she came back with Elmer's (I like Titebond II). I groaned but tried it...and I think I like it!

night Tom

Rob

Reply to
Rob Stokes

Some of us don't know the difference. In a few days of perusing this group my KF's over a hundred, probably a few non-trolls in there, anyone in a long discussion of politics is a candidate, I don't even read the threads.

C'est la vie.

Reply to
K

Silvan responds:

Michael, Michael. It doesn't work that way. Think of the reverse. You get screwed instead.

Charlie Self "Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." George Orwell

Reply to
Charlie Self

Just an observation or two. For the most part, the OT political threads have been anti GWB in nature. Very few if any were startet as an attack against the Democratic challenger. In the recent past most have come from individuals that do not post or respond to on topic threads. I am guilty of reacting to the OT posts that ARE designed to ellicit a reaction. It has been demonstrated that, for example, Florida Patriot, posts , ducks and runs.

I have decided, therefore, to do my best ignore all OT threads started by FP, et al. If we all do that then perhaps the trolls will get tired and go away.

Reply to
Al Reid

Al Reid responds:

You don't even have to ignore them. Just filter out anyone with a point with which you disagree. Saves a a lot of tensing up, I'm told.

Charlie Self "Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." George Orwell

Reply to
Charlie Self

I hear ya, Buddy! I don't bother with filters, and occasionally look in on some of the OT posts. But it IS amazing how some of these things just won't die!

I watch the pleas for help from relative newbies go unnoticed, as the political dead-horse gets pummeled into pulp. Granted, many of the questions could be answered by DAGS - but that removes the personal touch and assurance that many novices find comforting. Perhaps you/we are just jaded and tire of answering the same questions time and again or perhaps we're just out of new/interesting ideas. I haven't seen an innovative thread on finishing or technique in ages - and I come here to glean knowledge on that type of thing!

I chalk it up to the fact that many people are deeply concerned at the direction the country, and indeed the world, is headed and this is their way of blowing off steam.

Personally, I'll be glad when it's all over. (Not life, just politics...the other will come soon enough!)

P.S.- All the candidates blow - Gen. George Hammond for President!

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G.

Tom: I am one of those who have flamed recent political postings. But I do agree that we good ole boys and girls should digress into other topics from time to time. This is a social group and groupies digress.

What I do oppose is single individuals that drop political or similar OT posting in mass. We have one, in particular, that is posting 2-3 at a time and this makes sifting through the good stuff more difficult.

Reply to
RonB

Exactly. If you actually contribute to the wood working subject, I find no harm. If all you want to do is post OT go some where else.

Reply to
Leon

...and water is wet.

So you're a troll then, intentionally winding people up to watch the show. Good to know. .

Reply to
Dave Hinz

Is it any wonder that on 24 August 2004 I posted the following (and my sentiment remains unchanged):

Before anyone jumps me for my hypocrisy for posting in two threads currently running on the wreck, let me say that I regret my participation in those threads, but solely because I don't believe these threads belong here, whether they are labeled "Off Topic" or not. Justifying a post simply by labeling it "Off Topic" is akin to qualifying a racial or other odious slur by following it up with "just kidding." It's still odious and it's wrong.

Here's why I hate the political threads. I have spent a number of years on the wreck. I participate both here and on other woodworking fora on the internet on a regular basis. I have personally met dozens of fellow woodworkers from all over the country; a feat unthinkable before the 'net. Virtually all of the people that I've met have been people that I would be comfortable with in my house. I would enjoy conversing with them about woodworking and other topics of mutual interest.

When two (or more) people sit face to face it is almost unheard of for one of them to lean forward and say something anathema to the other's point of view; political, religious, or otherwise. I can't imagine someone doing that. It would be rude. It would be the height of inappropriate behavior. It would violate all rules of society.

Of all of the people I've met as described, I can honestly say I don't know the political inclinations of any of them. I didn't ask; they didn't tell. I don't want to know. And apparently they felt the same, because at the end of the day, they had not asked, either. That's not to say I don't have some inklings or suspicions, but I've not wanted to follow up to confirm.

The reason for that is I've seen too much lying, muckraking, prevarication, misinformation, mudslinging, unbelievable distortion of facts, all to political ends, for me to respect anyone that I believe is embracing those techniques and using them to further their particular ends. And I don't want to not respect the people I've become friends with. It hurts me to see someone whom I appreciate for their knowledge and experience in a particular area of woodworking (the reason I'm here) line up on the other side of what I believe.

In fact, I haven't been able to help but develop a list of wreckers who I wouldn't share a broken tool with, much less pleasant discourse; all because they couldn't contain their opinions on subjects that shouldn't be aired in a common interest forum for which those subjects would be off-topic.

Unfortunately, the anonymity behind which all who choose to can hide on the internet removes the constraints with which society holds a person with regard to his behavior.

Moreover, typing vitriol is virtually risk free as opposed to spewing it in person at the risk of a bloody nose. It's no surprise to me that we see so much of it on the internet. I'm not saying there's no place for it on the 'net; I know of at least a couple of "flame" newsgroups and several political ones where that is the appropriate medium.

I just think that the wreck is not one of them, and I don't want to find out about my friends' feet of clay. And that works across the spectrum; I'm sure there must be someone out there who is embarrassed about the way they've learned I feel.

Anyway, I expressed regret about joining the mob and its mentality and I meant it. And here is my pledge. No more will I engage in political (or other divisive) threads. It is not good for me, it is not good for my friends, it is not good for the wreck. The opinions expressed aren't going to change anyone's mind; it's naive for anyone to think so. That probably includes this one.

- - LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

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Reply to
LRod

Yeah, I'm done too. Nobody can change anybody else's mind anyway.

Reply to
mark

Yeahbut - a really eloquent, learned one... :)

Reply to
patrick conroy

Elmer's has a longer open time than Titebond, so it is better for complex glue-ups. Sounds like a SWMBO gloat.

Reply to
Alex Feldman

You better clarify which Elmer's you are talking about. Elmer's ProBond has a short open time compared to Titebond II.

Reply to
Leon

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