Sketup Question

[Leon]

At least it does not have a warning about possible "loose stool" like those potatoe chips did a few years back. LOL

>

[Robatoy]

I do that all the time. I doodle a lot. Very relaxing. It is my version of a 'game' I get to make silly doodles too like: (Notice that it is a true solid?)

I looked at SU, I asked several questions. Will it do this? Will it do that? When the answers came up negative, I decided not to waste my time. Somehow, you decided that my decision of not wasting my time disqualified me from making a judgement whether or not SU filled my needs. It didn't do what I wanted it to do. No need to look further. "This is a pretty good band, but all they do is play Cat Stevens songs." I discovered SU's limitations by investigating its capabilities. It seems that Google also figured out that it came up short for many others. They padded the project with LayOut, for a price. That covered some of my needs, but still there was no reason to drop any amount of money on capabilities I already owned and learned. Why are you having such a problem with that, Jack? Or are you just an asshole?

[Jack Stein]

Well said for someone doing his best to show how much time he hasn't "wasted" learning what SUFreebie actually does vs SU Pro.

Seriously? You know this how?

I would suggest anyone thinking of trying out SU, or has given it a cursory look, ignore your ramblings based on hot air, and listen to those that actually "wasted" some time learning how good the free version really is.

[Morris Dovey]

Give it a try. It's a simple parabola with a curve length of 48.000" and with the focus exactly centered between the two edges. It's an optical device, and it seems to work acceptably with points calculated every

0.010" and cut with an accuracy of +/- 0.001".

It's symmetrical, so you'll only need to plot one side (2401 of the 4801 points needed).

The trough I was working on when this thread started positions the 4x8 mirror crosswise to produce a temperature above 1400F, and it'll need

9601 points for the full width.

FWIW, even the primitive MS-DOS (pre-Windows) drawing/design software I first used was capable of handling the job.

A bandsaw can make the cut. The question is: can you cut the entire set of ribs with a bandsaw within the +/- 0.001" tolerance? You'll want to use a /very/ sharp pencil.

You're right, we've done a lot without computers and software - but I'd bet long odds that we've been able to produce more new design solutions since the introduction of computers than in all the time before them. It's a good tool technology - so why not use it as well as it can be used?

I hear you wanting to make a distinction between commercial activity and hobby activity, so let me respond to that by saying that my immediate interest doesn't fall neatly into either category. It's simply a woodworker's attempt to produce a real solution to a real problem, with the knowledge that a good solution can make a /lot/ of lives better.

Then let me clarify: 2300 years ago Euclid worked only with straight lines and circular arcs; today SketchUp works only with straight lines and circular arcs. The only difference is that the SketchUp user doesn't need (and almost certainly doesn't have) anything approaching Euclid's understanding of geometry.

A lot has happened since Euclid's time. His work in geometry led others to use symbols to represent frequently-used values, and that developed into algebra - which when applied back to Euclid's work resulted in trigonometry and what we now call analytical geometry - which eventually motivated calculus so that we could apply all of the above to non steady-state processes.

I think our disagreement grows out of the types of woodworking we do. I'm understanding that you see it as a fun toy and are interested in appearances, while I'm looking as it as a design tool for producing constructs that /do/ things - and I care a lot less about appearance than I do about function.

"Free" is nice, but not as important to me as being able to do a good job - and although you seem determined to make "free" a justification for ignoring two thousand years of advances in geometry and mathematics, I actually do use that stuff.

[Robatoy]

Because I played with it.

I can see that you'd never need SUPro. You're not likely to do anything interesting enough.

We can't really talk about Pro as you don't own it. (Psssst, I did download it and looked at it intently, I commented elsewhere that I thought LayOut was quite usable.

I have no problem taking Swing's word for anything, it's your words I have a problem with. You just whine and whine away, baying at the moon. But what you should do, is take a look at Google's own SketchUp site and look at the comparison table that GOOGLE publishes, showing the differences between Free and Pro. You'll find there is a clear mention of import/export differences, one of which (.dxf) that I cannot live without. So, if FreeSU cannot export any of my work so I can use it, then WHY- THE-HELL should I bother looking at anything else that it might or might not do?

You know what, jack? I think you are too stupid to understand what 'wasting time' really means. Trying to talk some sense into you certainly qualifies as 'wasting time'.

Ahhh fukkit...

[LEGEND65]

Turns out there are plugins for Bezier splines, I'm an idiot for not looking for that sooner. I am not sure how easy/possible it is to get a parabola from a Bezier, but if not it's certainly possible to add the ability to do a parabola to sketchup through ruby scripting. I'm not even sure what all the names of the curves the plugin can do mean, but I am guessing it can be done with the plugin.

Spline v1.2

At first I thought you couldn't move the control points again once you commit with a double click because they don't come back up when you click on it, but you can edit through the right click menu.

So there you go, Sketchup can do complex curves.

-Kevin

[Swingman]

"Leon" wrote

Whoooops! Hold it! .... stop the presses! In your worst nightmare ... like a glimpse under the seat of a construction site portapotty!

[Morris Dovey]

Of course it can, and it could be approximated closely with enough bezier splines. It'd still be necessary to calculate the positions of the end (and probably center) points, so I'd guess that it'd be more practical to just connect all 4801 of those points with straight line segments. :-p

I could also take time out to learn to write Ruby, but the version 1 design got finished while all this discussion was going on, and I just got a call from the manufacturer of the fin-tube component letting me know that it's on its way - so I'll probably do the usual and just make photos of the prototype. I figure there's not much time or effort saved if I have to go off and learn yet another programming/scripting language.

The fin-tube stuff is kinda pretty in a geekish way. I'll post a photo of a sample in case anyone's interested in weird hardware. See

[Robatoy]

of flow capacity. The planet needs you.

[Morris Dovey]

Well, if she don't make power, then she'll sure brew a cup of coffee in a hurry.

Hold my beer - I'm gonna try sump'en...

:o)

[Jack Stein]

What made me decide you were posting drivel with regards to SU was you saying SU doesn't to X and Swingman would explain that it would do x or post links that showed it would do X.

Again, I have no problem with SU not doing what you want. Some people think using SU will degrade expectations and abilities of many. I think your constant complaining about it's perceived limitations might discourage some from learning it.

"This is

Even though I only heard them once on the radio...

Perhaps, but most of it's limitations you noted where shot down by those that actually wasted time learning what all it can do.

No one ever said anything about you dropping what works for you. Everyone has said SU is not, nor claiming to be, a full blown CAD program. If I needed a full blown CAD program I guess I would spend a ton and a half of money on AUTOCAD... Few common woodworkers need AUTOCAD, or anything near autocad.

Well I am an asshole but that's not the problem I have with you trotting around bashing SU. I'm one, like so many others that tried SU, thought it a toy, tried it again, thought it was screwed up. Tried it again, and found it was much much better than I first thought, and decided to put in some time to really learn what it could do for me. Happily, I found it did about everything most hobbyists and small shop owners would need, and then some.

What made me keep pushing on with SU was not some dick that never "wasted" his time learning what it could do, instead, it was some guy who actually did "waste his time learning it", who's opinion I had come to respect (Swing) touting it's abilities.

Now, if you think that's a problem I have, tough cookies. I admit I enjoy the banter back and forth, and considering it's a subject that also interests me a good bit, I see no "problem" with my participation in the thread even though it is getting a bit long in tooth, particularly since it's likely to erupt again, next time you say something silly about SU.

So, let me ask you: Why are you having such a problem with that, or are

*you* just an asshole?

[Jack Stein]

So I guess when YOU stated you didn't waste time learning SU, you were lying?

True. I have no need to export files to AUTOCAD, or any other CAD program. Is that what "blows the socks off" and "BOM" means? It is also true I don't do much interesting stuff, I have made cabinets of all sorts, desks, chairs, lamps, tables, and even entire kitchens with counter tops, complete with holes for sinks. Nothing really interesting to most wood workers, but just stuff most woodworkers seem to do, routinely. Happily, these are things SU, the free one, is really, really good at drawing.

I only talked about it based on what Swing said, and what I read on the site. "Blow the socks off" was not in the picture drawn by those in the know...

(Psssst, I did

You commented that the PRO blows the socks off the free one, opposite of what has been said on the SU site, and by users of PRO and the FREESU.

Hence, I quoted Swingman's words, but appears you have problems with his words as well as mine...

You just whine and whine away, baying at the moon.

Making fun of the silly things you say about me, and SU, is entertaining to me.

But what you should do, is take a look at Google's own SketchUp

Yes, everyone has told you that, it is amazing that the only difference is it's import export abilities, particularly since you can import and export jpg's, which is all plenty of WW's need. Those that need to export .DXF files can spend $600 on the pro version, and they can create DC's instead just reading them. Most ww's won't miss either, or even know what they are.

You shouldn't. On the other hand, if you want to list things that SU cannot do, you should make sure you "wasted enough time" with it to be right. You didn't and now you're out there twisting in the breeze. Soon you will be cursing, calling me stupid and plonking me...

Didn't take long...

I'm stupid, SU is not real, yadda yadda yadda!

Especially when you are so BAD at it...

There ya go!

[Robatoy]

I can see by the file sizes that these must be some kind of rants, wasting yet more time for Jack...but not for me.

[Robatoy]

I cheated and traced a vector in Aspire.

[Lee Michaels]

Apparently he is railing against your concerted campaign to keep people from taking advantage of a free drawing tool. I assume that he got tired of tilting windmills and decided that you would become his cause de jour. Aren't you lucky!

[Swingman]

"Lee Michaels" wrote

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander ...

[Robatoy]

I'm not surprised you'd be in Stein's corner. He kisses your ass, while I won't.

[Morris Dovey]

:-]

[Robatoy]

won't do for Morris, eh? But, hey, it's a starting point, no? (The other problem with the trace, is that it goes up and down both sides of the line.

Hold my beer, I'm going to try something....

[Swingman]

LOL ... seems Jack's sauce on your tail is itching you a bit, eh Rob. No damn wonder, looks like he's got your BS pegged down pretty tight from here.

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Last update: 10/22/08 KarlC@ (the obvious)