Here is where I will explain it's short comings a bit more concerning the
"curves" that you mentioned above. SU will easily draw the appearance of
circles and portions of a circle/an ark. this depends on how many line
segments the circle has. Unless there is a plug in some where and please
tell me where if there is, you can not draw a relatively smooth irregular
curve like a CAD program will. For instance with AutoCAD you can draw a
flexible curved through a series of points that are not in a line or quickly
draw an ellipse.
Something like an ellipse would be difficult with SU although you can draw
one with a bow compass and could on SU at a particular angle but you would
be limited. A typical isometric ellipse can be drawn with 4 arcs with 2
That would limit me up a bit when designing a free-flow kidney-shaped
countertop for an island then? (I'm serious here....)
=======No NURBS, therefore no splines of any kind, 2D or otherwise. You could
approximate the shape with connected arcs, but changing it after the fact
will be a miserable exercise. (Maybe draw it in ACAD and import the DXF? Or
scratch one out in Photoshop and trace over it.) On the positive side, it's
remarkable what they manage to do with the minimalist feature set. You
could, for example, apply a one time edge treatment, such as a cove or ogee,
over the shape. Keeping in mind what it isn't helps keep the frustration
level down. My dogs don't do square roots, so I ask the wife instead when I
need the positive root of a binomial expression. Or something like that.
No it isn't, and AFAIK you can't control the number of line segments
sketchup approximates the path with. With arcs you can't make it
default to anything above 32, but you can go in and edit it to higher
number after. But you can't set it or edit that value on the freehand
entities. They are basically useless.
If I had to try to do a kidney shaped counter top in sketchup I would
probably start with some rectangles to rough in the shape. When you
do arcs sketchup will infer that you want to make the next arc tangent
to the previous one if you do them consecutively. But it won't
maintain that if you move anything, and it won't pick up the tangency
if you do anything in between. So you can "easily" make a free
flowing curved surface, but you have to know exactly where you are
going before you start. So I would lay out rectangles on one layer
and then use the corners like control points for arcs on a different
layer. It would only take a few seconds to draw the arcs, so you
could muck around with the rectangles and then redraw the arcs. A
completely backwards way of doing it, but you'd get there
Hehehehe, well, I think we all know how smooth I am...LOL
Is the freehand tool editable? With handles and nodes and stuff? Or
should I just go take another download/look?
YES! The freehand tool is editable.
You simply complete the freehand line, select it, explode it, and then
divide it with constraint points. Then you can select sections and move
them which will result in changing the shape of the freehand line. That
may not be enough for you but yes it is editable.
Yes, and you can type in the number of segments you want. It defaults
to 24, which looks smooth enough for any woodworking I've done, but I
guess it depends on your monitor. Not sure if there is a limitation of
the number of segments, but I would think you could enter the number of
pixels on your monitor and it would draw as smooth as your monitor
allows. I'm no SU expert by any means, so someone else might actually know.
Unless there is a plug in some where and please
I know you can draw this stuff smooth enough for *my* needs, and here is
a tutorial on arcs and circles:
You probably are talking beyond this, but for any general wood workers
that might be thinking SU doesn't draw smooth circles or arcs, this link
will show you how SU handles this sort of thing.
Not sure, I have enough trouble just drawing up a work bench with all
straight lines. The tutorial above shows all sorts of curves being
drawn. Beyond that, not sure what I would do with them. All my work
with circles I got by with a compass, a flexible metal ruler, a coffee
can, or segments on graph paper by connecting the dots and tracing an
outline. SU does at least as well from the looks of what the tutorial
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Opens doors. That's all it does? Like a stepping stone to real
software? Is that is what is in your prospective? The anticipation to
expand your limitations? Or did you mean perspective? It is really
hard to understand you sometimes, Jack.
Regardless, I have had enough of this thread, and as usual, I have
learned a few things. (Least of which is that the price of my CNC went
up overnight...cool !!)
That's not ALL it does, it easily draws 3d and 2d drawings that most
woodworkers can use in their shops. If a woodworker suddenly feels the
need to spend mega dollars on Autocad so they can build something, then
I guess you could say it would open doors to Autocad.
Like a stepping stone to real software?
SU is very real, you make little sense...
Oh, sorry, you were just, in you're tired old way, denigrating SU.
Is that is what is in your prospective? The anticipation to
Sorry to confuse you, I meant perspective.
When did that happen? Last I heard you bragging about it, it cost $30
grand, how much is your CNC worth now? My guess is much less since it's
used? I'd bet though there are CNC machines that cost a lot more than
yours, and may even make yours look like a toy, with limited
capabilities, like a "stepping stone" to a "REAL" CNC machine... do ya
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This is a BS response - comparable to saying that a table saw and a set
of hole saws is a complete and adequate set of cutting tools.
I'm not sure what your hang-up on CNC tooling is, unless you have some
kind of anti-precision prejudice. I have two CNC routers, and the more
precise - see http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/JBot/ - was shop built
(mostly of wood!) and contains less than $1000 worth of materials. It
interfaces with free-for-the-downloading control software. Your
references to AutoCAD, billion dollar projects, and years of training
are just plain silly.
Only if there is no need to move forward from the toolset provided by
Euclid of Alexandria more than 2000 years ago.
At the risk of belaboring the obvious, the world has moved on. A
software package that gives woodworkers access only to what was known
two thousand years ago, however conveniently and prettily, is sadly
Agreed - if your project is sufficiently simple, a pencil can be an
adequate solution. Now consider one of my projects
How would you tackle that with a pencil? And before you talk about that
being too "far out" to matter to woodworkers, I'll mention that that
project's web pages have been visited by woodworkers from 46 countries
so far this month (according to the server report generated at 3:04 this
My inescapable conclusion is that there are a lot of woodworkers whose
woodworking interests go considerably beyond what can be done with 2300
year old geometry.
Goody for you. That sounds a lot like "I got what /I/ need..."
AND they can save money on pencils, too... :)
I still see it as "dumbing down".
I feel the same way. If you need a better pencil, then SU is a good tool.
And it goes way beyond a pencil in terms of its capabilities. But there are
a range of tools and capabilities out there. And to brag about rejecting
them and glorify a minimalist approach is essentially rejecting anything
beyond your present tools and skills.
I get in over my head all the time on my projects. If I had some more tools
and skills (and/or money), my life would be much simpler. It depends not
only on what you do, but what makes you happy. Or in the case of some
toolphobes, what makes them unhappy.
BINGO! Give the man a prize! How about a free filling for your air-
mattress? Anything off the top shelf? A free foot-journey to Gary
It is all about being happy. I didn't buy that CNC for it to make me
lots of money, I bought it because it was clear that it had a huge fun-
factor built right in. I go out of my way to enjoy what it is I am
doing. Every day. I enjoy putting a nice finish on a Corian
countertop. (Suuuure, I have to go through lot of mundane crap to get
there, but hey, you have to stab an animal if you want steak, right?)
As Leon, and others, will attest, it is almost FUN to sand with a
Festool sander. After that, all other sanders suck... at least to me.
I'm not even sure there is a snob-factor here. A good tool, is a good
tool, and it is usually those who aren't willing to make the sacrifice
to buy a good tool, who call guys like me a snobs. Could it be "Tool
Envy??" Is it any wonder that there is a tool out there called Freud?
The art of living with a grin on my face, a grin on my Angela's face,
a grin on the faces of those who enjoy their lives. Make a few million
along the way. All you get is one life.
I am happy with my Makita corded drill. (Came free with my Makita
mitre saw). I would never, in a million years spend the money for a
Festool drill. That's just nuts. But nobody makes a better sander. (I
really like the Milwaukee routers...no way am I spending Festool
money ..) See, I own Festool sanders because they're the
best...they're not the best /because/ I own them. That's a point that
Stein seems to be missing. That is not making him happy. I feel bad
now that I own Festool products, but I wonder why the colour scheme of
Festool includes 'envy-green' ? Ooooweeee. the plot thickens.... Those
Fein Multi-Tools are kinda phallic shaped..and they vibrate...
dammit... they sure did their research...
Unhappy is not a good thing, Lee.
Ask not what your tool can do for you, but ask what you can do for
your tool. (Say wot?)
Anyway, I finished my lunch...back to work....
There is this thing called LayOut, Morris, that has a few neat
features. I think it comes with SUPro. (As opposed to SUPdoc?)
LayOut does allow beziers and Dynamic Components makes designing
Mission tables fun.
Pro is not a waste of money IMO and blows the doors off the SUFreebie,
but all the good stuff seems to be hanging around in LayOut.
The Freebie can be fun. A fun tool, as opposed to a serious tool. Fun
is good. But, NO support for BOM. (Barrel Of Monkeys). *smirks*
Well said for someone doing his best to show how much time he hasn't
"wasted" learning what SUFreebie actually does vs SU Pro.
Seriously? You know this how?
Drivel seems to entertain the hell out of you as well... I don't own SU
pro and from what I've read, there is no reason I would need SU Pro.
But rather than take your word for it, considering you seem to know zip
about SU free or pro, I'll take Swingmans word since he actually owns SU
Pro. Here's what he said:
"As far a drawing/design ability, there is no functional difference
whatsoever between the free and pro version."
I would suggest anyone thinking of trying out SU, or has given it a
cursory look, ignore your ramblings based on hot air, and listen to
those that actually "wasted" some time learning how good the free
version really is.
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