Then you made a poor assumption and an unsafe decision to leave the
cutoff there. That's something that is completely within your control
though and thinking safety first might have told you that there was a
kickback possibility and you should move the cutoff completely away
from the blade, moving or not.
That's why some of us aren't worried about a tablesaw chasing us down
and causing us bodily harm, we consider the possibilities carefully
and don't take any chances to begin with.
You misunderstand. I'm not taking offence at you knowing how to be careful.
I'm ridiculing you for thinking that it's impossible for you to have an
accident of some type and getting hurt. It means that it will happen to you,
sooner than later.
Normally, I wouldn't like to see anyone hurt, but in your case when it
happens to you, it will be most appropriate. And when it comes to perfection
and never making an error, the only perfection you seem to have obtained is
that of being the perfect asshole.
This is the aspect of these conversations that makes them so annoying. You
are flat out wrong with this assertion. The field of woodworking is
populated with more people who successfully made it through lifetimes of
using tools without the dreaded injuries that you so adamantly promise.
Safety is necessary - no one yet has suggested otherwise, but not every
device out there is absolutely necessary to ensure against an inevitable
incident. Sorry - contend all that you want but historical numbers are just
simply against you. It is when you make ludicrous assertions like this that
you do set yourself up for critical comment. Neither Brian nor anyone else
has ever once suggested that it is impossible for them to have an accident
of some type. This type of hyperbole does nothing to further your argument.
And you misunderstand completely what I'm saying. Brian is contending that
he can't have any type of accident because he's too careful. Sorry, but life
just doesn't work that way. Sure, someone being careful will definitely
minimize the chances of something untoward happening. But, accidents do
happen, even to the most careful person. Why do you think they're called
accidents? It's unintentional, but it does happen. It's sheer arrogance (and
essentially a really stupid statement) to say otherwise.
Hey, he calls me a dipshit, I feel perfectly entitled to respond in kind.
Exactly. The overwhelming majority of woodworkers make it through
life without losing a limb. Do we get scraped up, bang our fingers
with hammers, get cut, bruised and bandaged? Of course, most of us
do, but most of us never cut anything off of ourselves accidentally,
especially those of us who actually know how to be careful, know what
our tools can do and know how to take precautions to dramatically
lessen the possibility of personal injury.
Some people want everyone else to take care of them, they're afraid of
having personal responsibility for their own health, safety and
wellbeing. Unfortunately, these people usually are the ones who want
to mandate that everyone else do what they want as well. SawStop, as
a company, is one of those groups and their apologists largely are as
well. I've never said that the saw isn't well made, but for what I'd
ever need, it's just not worth the pricetag and their faulty stopping
technology just isn't necessary in my shop. I'll go on for another 40
years of woodworking without serious injury, without having some nanny
company tell me I have to pay them to take care of me.
And of course, you're intimately familiar with SawStop and can say with
absolute certainty that their technology is faulty. Why do you think I've
been responding to you as I have? You've stated things that you really don't
know for sure and made assertions that are impossible to verify. Whether you
ever get a SawStop is your business and I couldn't really care less, but
however you want to spin it, the technology has considerably value and
there's nothing your fantasy statements can do to change that.
I never said it was impossible. Anything is possible. I'm saying
that I'm careful enough that I don't have to worry about being
seriously injured because I think ahead and don't make risky moves.
It's funny, just about all the old woodworkers I know who have been
doing this all their lives and still have never been seriously injured
would laugh at you. Sure, it'll happen to them sooner or later, I
guess it just means much, much, much, much later in their case.
Well, that one sure got some action!
And one guy has actually used one!
I had no idea about the false stops, which could be an issue at $200 or so
with a good blade.
I'm gonna try to find one on display.
Where are you guys finding "data" regarding false triggers ?? ?? ??
I've not been able to track down a single verified instance !! !! !!
BTW .. a replacement cartrige is $59.00 added to the cost of
repair/replacement of whatever blade you were using when the device
triggered. I triggered the device on two occasions where I worked ..
both were demonstrations and intentional .. we were using a 40 tooth
blade in the demo, and in each case, 3 teeth were embedded in the
cartridge. 3-4 replaced teeth on a good blade should run less than $15
at most sharpening shops. Even if you are talking about replacing a
Forrest blade .. I just ordered two from Amazon for $68.00 each. Now,
let's take an imaginary trip to the Emergence Room and start adding up
the $$$$$$$. FWIW .. in both instances, the blades were ATB grind,
and you could easily tell from the damage that ONLY ONE TOOTH ever
touched the hot dog.
I am also not aware of the "facts" surrounding the alleged attempt by
the inventor to get the government to make his device a mandate. I've
read several posts making some accusations of that, and feel that it is
probably at least partially true. What I don't undersatnd is, what
does a marketing blunder on his part have to do with keeping my fingers
on my hands ?? I've read some posts declaring "I'd probably buy one IF
he didn't try to blah, blah, blah" No matter WHAT HE DOES, I want to
KEEP MY FINGERS.
YES .. $4,000 is a lot of money for a saw .. .. ..
YES .. $100 or more to replace blade & cartridge sounds like a big
investment .. .. ..
YES .. the SAWSTOP is an excellent saw and a wonderfully designed saw
even without the brake .. .. ..
oh yeah .. .. ..
YES .. it WILL cost you in excess of $40,000 to have an amputated finger
reattached, not to maention the paing, suffering, loss of work, loss of
use of the appendage, etc.
The more you study the dynamics of a kickback and it's associated
perils, the more sense the SAWSTOP makes. Used correctly, it will
almost eliminate the possibility of a kickback, and the blade brake WILL
protect you in the event you do something stupid and cause one anyway.
Do a Google Groups search -- at least one person has posted here, reporting a
false trip of which he says he has first-hand knowledge.
It's *completely* true. Again, do a Google Groups search -- this was discussed
in great detail here about two years ago. SawStop *did* in fact petition the
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, requesting that their proprietary
technology become mandated, and there was a post here that referenced the CPSC
filing. This is not a wild unsubstantiated figment of someone's imagination.
It's a fact.
How does the SawStop prevent *kickback* ?? The whole point of the device is to
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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