OT: need snake advice

[Art Greenberg]

I assume you are being facetious. All snakes are carnivorous.

A small snake in Florida is likely going after small mammals, and perhaps lizards. A black racer certainly will take lizards.

[Larry Blanchard]

Yeah, but most of yours are poisonous. Most of the snakes in the US are harmless. Only 4 are poisonous. They are:

A. Copperhead (SE U.S.): So lazy they sometimes won't strike even if you pick them up - although that's not a good idea. Their poison won't even kill a large dog, although a small child might sucumb if not treated.

B. Water moccasin aka cottonmouth (also SSE U.S.): This one is pretty poisonous, but you'll only get bit if you swim with one. There is a "fake" cottonmouth that mimics the poisonous one and is much more common. No poison, but you'll probably get a reaction from its filthy mouth.

C. Rattlesnake (various subspecies all over the U.S.): Most of these can kill an adult if not treated, but there have been cases where the victim just stayed calm and survived. They normally rattle to warn you off before striking, but if you step on one that's not much help.

D. Coral Snake (mostly Florida, but occasionally found further north): This is the only U.S. snake with neurotoxic venom. Very deadly. But the poison glands are in the rear of the mouth, so some people who report bites have survived because they only got bitten with the front teeth. They are sometimes confused with the harmless king snake, which is a very good ratter and mouser, Old saying: "red on yellow, friendly fellow - red on black, look out Jack!"

BTW, we also have a snake known as the hog-nose viper. It will attack and even strike, but always does so with its mouth closed. If that doesn't scare you off, it rolls over on its back and plays dead. Only problem is that if you flip it onto its belly, it'll flip right back over again :-).

[Art Greenberg]

Not always. Some snakes, like garter snakes and ribbon snakes, will take insects. Some snakes eat fish and slugs.

But rattlesnakes prey primarily on mammals. The heat-sensing pits in front of their eyes (the reason they are called pit vipers) help them locate warm-blooded prey. In the OP's area (Florida), the young rattler can find plenty of small mammals.

Mostly true of North American species, but there are exceptions.

Certainly good advice. Best for the snake and for you.

[charlie]

it takes a lot of physical resources of the snake to generate the venom. a large snake knows this and will bite but won't inject (it knows it can't eat something so large). a baby snake doesn't know this, and injects on almost every bite.

regards, charlie cave creek, az

[Lew Hodgett]

Good job for animal control.

Lew

[alexy]

Here's a story of one 13-year-old's experience with a rattlesnake bite that went untreated for nearly five hours while he was being transported to a hospital.

Don't click on the link to the pictures if you have a weak stomach.

D. Coral Snake (mostly Florida, but occasionally found further north):

[steve]

Living in Fl, on 5 acres .....I HAVE seen plenty of rattle snakes...Diamond backs, and cane breaks (subspeicies of timbers) , and moccasins

My general rule of thumb is...if they are up front where thePeople, dogs and cats are......they meet their maker at the end of a spade. Note, this is only snakes that are positively ID-ed as baddies.

If I see them out back in the pastures, I just leave them be.

We have had several goats killed by run ins with moccasins at the pond, 2 of the dogs have been face bitten.and survived just fine.......a shot of antibiotics and they are good as new in short order.

We get a pile of small cane breaks showing up at alternate times of the year....they have no rattles yet.....but will coil, and strike immediately.....they dont hold back like the adults do.

I almost trod on a 6' diamond back out in the back 3 acres, I was heading out to do something, and my eyes werent on the ground....this ol bouy was evidently heading to the pond to get a drink.....and gave me a warning rattle...I bet it was comical to see, cause I stopped in mid step, one foot in the air....saw what was 3; in front of me.......and eased out, exit, stage left very very slowly. Point is, he coulda had me if he wanted.the baby snakes have no experience, and will whack ya immediately.

If its in yur screen room....use the spade...life will go on.....they arent endangered here

Steve

[no spam]

I have to disagree with you here, they are shy not lazy. That makes them even more dangerous. I have dealt with copperheads, cottonmouths and rattlesnakes and of the 3 the copperhead is the one I worried the most about and is most likely to be a 'biter'. That's because of their shyness; they will not run but lay still and hope don't see them and leave. Because they don't move a lot of the times you don't know they are there until you have gotten so close they bite you in self defense.

Most of the time the other two will either run or try to scare you off. The cottonmouth by flashing his white mouth, the rattlesnake by rattling.

Or they drop into the boat with you. Fishing in the South can be very exciting because cottonmouths, and other snakes, like to climb into low hanging tree limbs to bash in the sun. When scared their instinct is to quickly drop into the water. FYI, a boat moving along quietly with an electric trolling motor usually doesn't scare them until it is VERY close to them,. Can you right under them? I thought you could. :)

[no spam]

By the time animal control gets there the odds are the snake is going to be gone. Unless someone is keeping it there which is a better way to get bit than trying to get it into a bucket.

[no spam]

My point was all snakes are good for rodent control. There are very few non-venomous North American snakes can handle a full grown, i.e. breeding sized, rat. By wiping out your venomous snake population you are most likely going to have fewer mice but more rats.

[dpb]

Larry Blanchard wrote: ...

...

Better relearn your ditty -- you're backwards.

"Red and yellow, kill a fellow..." is more useful to remember.

--

[J T]

Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 2:13pm (EDT-2) [e-mail] (Scott=A0Cox) doth sayeth: That's ridiculous and the reason our taxes are so high. DON'T look for help from the govt. and get the rake out. Sheesh!

Rake is unhandy for killing snakes, hoe, or spade, is much handier. I like a revolver and shot cartridges. Then a shovel to pick them up - sometimes they have muscle reacon..

JOAT I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do them.

- Picasso

[J T]

Sun, Aug 19, 2007, 9:39pm (EDT-3) [e-mail] (tom) doth sayeth: An older, wiser rattler is more likely to give a dry bite, and that does the job at hand.

I don't think so. They bite, venom comes out - usually. They can espend all their venom, so none is available until more is generated. Or, a fang(s) can go thru flesh, ear, whatever, and the venom be ejected outside the flesh, instead of in it. I also understand that rattlesnakes (dont know if this applies to other sanakes or not) sometimes get an infection or something in a fang that wo't allow the fang to eject venon. Plenty of reasons you cat could survive, but a snake purpsly holding back venom is not on the list.

JOAT I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do them.

- Picasso

[charlie]

is interesting to note that rattlesnakes can control the injection of venom when biting. Medical experts familiar with snake bites indicate that up to 60% of all snake bites to humans by poisonous snakes are "dry" bites containing no venom. Experts feel that the snakes may be voluntarily withholding the venom for use on prey and conserving it in some defense situations. However, these animals should always be treated with cautious respect.

[Swingman]

"no spam" responds to

Only snake that I've ever been "chased" by, in the sense that they would come toward you instead of retreating, is a copperhead.

We had them by the dozens when I was growing up and mowing a big yard during certain times of the year was guaranteed to scare up two or three. They almost always came toward me instead of retreating, something I've experienced enough times to safely say it was a characteristic behavior, at least for the "Southern" variety we had in south Louisiana.

Politically correct or not, a live copperhead is not a welcome critter on a farm with small animals and lots of children, so add a lawnmower to the list of anything-that'll-get-the-job-done-on-the-spot snake killing tools.

[Art Greenberg]

My point is that your point is incorrect. Many North American snakes don't eat rodents.

Few, venomous or non-venomous. The only rattlesnake that gets big enough for that is the Eastern Diamondback. The only non-venomous that get that big regularly are the Black Rat, Everglades Rat, and the Indigo. The Eastern Pine and Bull can get big enough, but rarely.

I have several snakes in my collection that do well with a "medium" rat.

Huh?

[Art Greenberg]

Not a viper at all. The Eastern Hognose eats frogs and fish. The Western Hognose eats rodents. The Eastern "plays dead" much more readily than the Western. Unfortunately, both loose the tendency to do that in captivity.

Oh, and I _have_ been bitten by a Western Hognose. Its mouth sure wasn't closed.

[J T]

Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 3:14pm (EDT-3) [e-mail] (charlie) doth posteth thusly: 60% of all snake bites to humans by poisonous snakes are "dry" bites containing no venom. Experts feel that the snakes may be voluntarily withholding the venom for use on prey and conserving it in some defense situations.

Damn, it must be really great to be an "expert", and know all there is to know about something. I also notice the weasel word "feel" in that little squib. Any of them "esperts" felt confident enough to try it?

I love the German for rattlesnake, Klapperschlange. Years back I saw a video of an "expert" who was going to prove he could survive a Maussaga (i believe it was) rattlesnake bite, with NO medical assistance, only by his own efforts and one of those little snakebite kits. Well, it took him a few tries before the snake actually bit him. He must have been mistaken for prey, because he definitely got a dose of venom. He proceeded to use his little snakebite kit, with the little sharp blade, bournequit (?), snakebite treatment juice, and suction cups. And he died. LMAO The really funny part is the kit worked, but wasn't the miricle cure the guy thought it was, it merely extended his life expectency - he should have had real medical attention on top of that. If he had accepted the medical treatment, even hours after the bite, they figure he would have survived. In other cases the snakebite kit might actually save a life, even without proper medical treatment - in this case I guess he really pissed the snake off enough to get a full shot.

JOAT I do things I don't know how to do, so that I might learn how to do them.

- Picasso

[Larry Blanchard]

Agreed. It ISN'T a viper, that's just the common name. A lot of farmers in KY, where I grew up, were convinced it was a poisonous viper.

Don't know about the Western variety, but I participated in an educational program put on by U of K many years ago at the state fair. We had samples of every snake native to KY. One was the hognose. I regularly put my finger into its mouth as part of the lecture to prove it wouldn't bite - it never did.

You're also right about the rapid taming. We had to get another wild one about every other day to demonstrate the playing dead action :-).

[Larry Blanchard]

I can only go from experience. Some of us found one on the playground in

6th grade and handed it around to each other, not knowing it was venomous. We finally put it in a glass jar and took it back to class. The teacher had a fit! Told us to go out and kill it. We took it back to the corner of the playground and turned it loose :-).

In Virginia, a neighbor's dog (Labrador) got bitten several times when he attacked a group of copperheads sunning themselves. His son also got bit when he rushed in to "save" the dog. Both got promptly treated and were back out playing in a couple of days - hopefully a little wiser :-).