On 9/16/2010 10:36 AM, Robatoy wrote:
ROTFL ... agreed! ;)
Nice thing is that, if set up properly, SU does print much better than
it looks on most PC screens.
For any software it's hard to control all the graphic display subsytems
and screen resolutions it operates on.
Oh, so I guess this is your drive-by "I guess I was wrong to trash SU
when I hadn't used it since Moses was a pup" apology?
There's an app for that. You can use plugins or other programs to
tweak the SU model to make it photorealistic, though why someone would
need to do that for a countertop layout, I have no idea. I take
pictures of a material and use the JPG as a material in SU. You can't
get more real than real.
It wasn't that long ago that the freebie still sucked canal water. I
only 'trashed' (too strong a word, really, yours not mine) those who
tried to pawn it off as full-blown CAD, which it wasn't and still
isn't. Those who have a modicum of CAD knowledge have agreed with me
My criticism of SU at the time was well founded and I have nothing to
apologize for. The fact that SU has evolved to this extent is
wonderful. It does not negate my previous complaints about previous
People who used to review Hyundai cars from days gone by are now
finding them quite good. That did not make them wrong back in those
Plonk him, Toy. (so it stops bothering the rest of us when you reply
Some people are like Slinkies ... not really good for
anything, but you can't help smiling when you see one
tumble down the stairs.
No, this is his lame attempt at an excuse to justify his trashing
something he knew next to nothing about. Rotoboy was trashing sketchup
as a toy long after Swing, and millions of others were using it for
designing houses, kitchens etc, etc. Swing wasted a lot of time arguing
with the scum bag.
The Problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of Other Peoples Money!
Thanks for your helpful comments see my additional
comments and questions below.
On 9/15/2010 4:04 PM, Swingman wrote:
So how do you show details of components such as mortise/tenon joints,
location of dado, rabbits and dimensions of each etc on the components
that have them? Sure the cut list will show the overall dimension of a
component but not these details. When you go into the shop to build
these cabinets how do you know how to cut all of the details needed to
For example I just finished a kitchen island for our house (34" x 60")
with 6 doors, 3 drawers, face frames, storage for books, shelving under
the drawers, swing up mixer shelf with a drawer below it. I ended up
with about 10 pages (legal size paper) showing all of the details I
needed to build each component. I used a 2D CAD program to do this and
can't imagine doing this with a single Sketchup drawing.
May get this but have to think about $20 for this feature.
I have played with scenes and don't see how I can explode a drawing
using scenes with out affecting the other scenes.
As for layers I have used them in other CAD programs and again
don't see how I can explode a drawing, add a number annotations as
to how a project is built and do it with layer and/or scenes.
Do you know of tutorials that show how to use Sketchup scenes and layers
to show the details I need? That would be very helpful.
Hello... Maybe I am just an experienced CAD user but I opened the
scene tool and saw instantly how it works.
Turn off all parts except part #1
Create a scene that has the camera angle you want of part #1
Create annotations on a layer named part #1
Use the scene controls to capture what parts and layers are turned on.
Now do the same for part #2, etc., etc.
So each scene has a viewpoint and only the appropriate things turned
on or off.
This does not do explosions unfortunately. Cheapest CAD program I know
that does OK explosions is a few thousand dollars.
SketchUp is flexible and I'm sure there are better ways to do it than
mine, but it works and it's easy enough to do. I have no experience
with those plugins that were mentioned, so I basically just create an
exploded layer or layers and copy the components to the new layer and
move them to where I want them. With scenes you'd have the first
scene with everything together, and the exploded layer turned off,
then in the second scene you'd have the exploded layer turned on and
the original layer turned off. That's the quick idea, but it's better
with at least one more layer as there's usually a central master part/
assembly that everything else is attached to, so that can stay and be
visible in all scenes.
When you run an animation the change between scenes occurs in a series
of frames - a movie, and one layer turns off and the other turns on
(and the view changes if you've been tweaking the view in individual
scenes). By using a number of scenes and moving parts in a logical
order, that exploded parts assembly really will look like it's coming
apart or going together.
I posted links to two of the bigger free tutorial sites in an earlier
post. If you really want to get tweaked, check out Sketchy Physics.
Once you do this time and again, like anything else, you tend to do things
the same. This speeds up design AND production. Basically use a rule of
thumb that works for you. Tenons are sized X amount according to the
material size. For me I have made thousands of cabinets door joints that
are stub tenon. I "always" make the tenon the thickness of the panel that
the door will receive, 7/32", and I always make the tenon 1/2" deep.
Cutlist sees the tenon whether visible or not if you make the part into a
component and actually draw the tenon on the part. So basically a rail with
tenons that is visibly 10" long when assembled will be recognized as 11"
with the 1/2" tenons added to each end. Cutlist tells me to cut the rail
11". I know that the part is a rail and will need to have a 1/2" long tenon
cut into each end and I will need to cut a groove 1/2" deep and 7/32" wide
to receive the tenon and panel both the rails and stiles.
For the odd detail that is unique you may still need to copy that detail to
another area of the drawing and print that detail separately for reference.
Uniformity speeds the design and the execution.
Zactly. My drawer boxes are always an inch smaller than the cavity
assigned to them. Something you do on autopilot.
Rails are 1" longer. We do this, we know this.
To a newb, a lot of that can be really intimidating
Zactly again. That is why, even when I design/build one-off small
cabinets, I stick to the 32 mm system. It's where I live. (That router
sure makes life a lot easier now too. It came with http://cabinetpartspro.com /
and that's a joy to use.)
I highly recommend that one becomes, even if somewhat cursory,
familiar with the concept behind the 32 mm system. The Intarweb tubes
are full of info.
Ya... I do the same thing.. for some reason I
got anal and felt I needed to show this on all
Thanks for bringing me back down to earth.
I was working on a door and the light went on
I've done this the same way before!!!
On 9/17/2010 5:40 AM, Leon wrote:
If you are going to turn the file over to a customer for review, formal, the
way Swingman does it is good. For your own personal use the spread it out
methods works providing it does not get too complicated.
Now I do draw the details! This way my import export program knows what
size the pieces need to be over all. But I know the details and don't
necessarily need to explode and blow them up for my own referencing.
While your above example is quite possible with SU using scenes and
layers, the question is why would you want to?
IOW, if you're designing and building a car, why have the parts for the
motor in the same file as the body? :)
Example: Following are two SU files of end cabinets that a client
ordered to match a kitchen cabinet style hutch I had previously built
for her. The client lives in a different city, so the ability for her to
be able to download the free version of SU and view the files was
important in doing this long distance.
This first file, made strictly for design purposes and was made up of
components from both the proposed end cabinet design(s) I was working on
at the time and the file I had originally used to build the kitchen
cabinet hutch, is the actual file was e-mailed back and forth to give
her a choice in the design and to determine which end cabinet style
(Frame and Panel, or match the "kitchen cabinet" look of the original)
she would prefer.
(Keep in mind that the original hutch was designed to go in a kitchen,
thus the "kitchen cabinet" type case work involved in both files):
This second file was what I call an "as-built" file and what was used to
both make a cutlist, and to build the actual cabinets:
<http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Hutch Cabinet-Carcase & Base
That said, I know in advance how I want to build things like frame and
panel doors, so I really don't need to go into detail with mortise and
tenons, etc in most of my SU models.
My goal with SU is mostly overall dimensions, stylistic elements, and
enough component detail to generate a cutlist for the particular method
I'm going to use to build the end product.
PLUS the thought process involved in building the piece on "paper" first
before ever going into the shop, which keeps you from building yourself
into corners without a plan and having to field engineer your way out. :)
I can't advise you there ... I don't use it. Instead I do the exploding
myself using scenes and layers to explode a copy of the original
component to be exloded.
There are a few tutorials on youtube on using scenes and layer, but
perhaps this simpler file of a support assembly will give you an idea of
how to use scenes and layers to do an exploded drawing of a component,
made up of other components:
In all the examples above, what you are looking for are example of the
use of scenes and layers to effect some of the things you are asking
about WITHOUT cluttering up your drawings with multiple copies of the
same thing spread all over universe, which makes for a much bigger file
and one that is harder for your graphic subsystem to display,
particularly if you're short of horsepower in that regard.
That is not to say that is not a valid method ... I just prefer the
tidiness and ultimate organization of using both scenes and layers,
instead of multiple copies of the same components just shown in
FWIW, another tool that is very helpful for accomplishing these types of
tasks is the "Hide", which can be used to great effect with "Scenes" to
hide elements you don't want to show in that scene.
What kills it is the spaces - terminates a line - and the ampersand.
Unix servers would do exactly the same - not a accepted format.
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com /
On 9/17/2010 11:50 AM, Swingman wrote:
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