I lurk here, and post now and then. I've learned a lot, but I have a question that I haven't seen answered.
I still do my plans with a T Square and Triangles. I think I would like to learn SketchUp. I have watched their Getting Started videos and it seems pretty simple - at least to do simple things. Is it? What is the learning curve like? Any thoughts or suggestions will be appreciated.
Sketchup is nolonger truly free. They pay lip service to it, but if you charge 1¢ for one bit of work derived from it in anyway then you are considered a commercial user according to the TOS. Google nolonger runs Sketchup as a collaborative build platform. They sold it out.
If you are just doing simple 2D work just about any CAD program will get you by. Even CorelCraw can be made to perform like a real CAD program if you tweak the settings.
FreeCAD has a following for 3D work, but the last time I played with it there were still a lot of bugs. I've been told its better now. I don't recall that it was built for 2D work.
For cash I like ViaCad. I use the 2d/3d Pro version that costs about $299 if I recall. There are simpler versions, and Shark is their higher end package. It?s a pretty easy to learn interface for me. I like the tools and tool bar flyout intereface. It seems to work in 3D space the same way I think and visualize. 2D is pretty easy too. I use both.
Fusion360 is pretty powerful for 3D work. Its free for hobbyists, startups, and small business grossing less than a $100K. I use it occasionally for the powerful HSM CAM capabilities, but I tend to fall back on ViaCad for CAD work.
There is a lot more out there, but those are the ones I am most familiar with.
I think the last time that I used a t square and triangles was in the
70's, I had a formal education in mechanical drafting and architectural drafting.Have you had any drafting courses? Do you know the tricks and shortcuts to drawing manually? It will greatly help when moving on to CAD.
Anyway I began using CAD's in 1986 and up until about 8~9 years ago used AutoCAD LT. Then I switched to Sketchup. I hope I never have to change again. This program is is the bench mark now with woodworkers.
I am going to say that one of the most important things to learn IMMEDIATELY is to make separate parts of a project into a component. Highlight all parts of the object, right click, and select Make Component.
You will absolutely not progress beyond baby steps until you learn to do this and it is very simple.
WHY?
All lines of a part or object will stick, stretch, and contort if you try to move or modify them. Until you make all lines/pieces of an object into a component you will not be able to add other attaching lines/parts to the drawing with out creating havoc.
Think of taking a trip and you come to a fork in the road. One fork goes to Components, the other fork goes nowhere. If you take the fork to nowhere you will travel endlessly in the wrong direction. At some point you will realize that you should have taken the Component fork. You cannot take a short cut to get out of this mess, you will have to go back to the fork in the road to to in the correct, Component direction.
Look for videos that cover COMPONENTS. Don't go on until you understand the importance of learning to use components.
Again making parts into components is STUPID SIMPLE. There is no excuse to not learn to do this IMMEDIATELY. Otherwise yo might as well be trying to draw blind folded.
Do you get my drift? LOL
In all honesty not using components makes using Sketch up extremely difficult for EVERYBODY.
Past that Sketchup is pretty darn simple to learn, especially if you have any CAD experience at all.
I will be happy to answer any questions you have, AFTER you have learned how to makes components.
Yes it is truly free, it is called Sketchup Make. Google sold Sketchup and all of its versions several years ago Trimble. And there is/has at least an annual update, 4~5. And several years before that Google bought Sketchup from another company.
If you have seen any of my work you should understand the Skecthup Make is ideal for all woodworkers. It is the go to program for every woodworking magazine that I know of. I have never seen as much documentation and videos for woodworkers with any other program as I have for Sketchup. I have probably used 15~20 different cad programs and update versions of cad programs in the past 31 years. For woodworking projects past making a stick, Sketchup is what you probably want. YMMV
I learned drafting on a hard wooden stool with a T square and triangles. also. Much later, I was trained on AutoCad. ACad has every stinkin' whistle and bell imaginable, which is why it's No. 1 and costs yer first born to purchase a single seat.
I didn't like SketchUp. Might be intuitive to those who are unused to a "3D modeling program", which AutoCad is NOT and SketchUp IS! But, I was lost. Plus, SketchUp never offered a version for Linux (which I prefer).
I'm retired, now, so have no need for a CAD program. I was looking at LibreCAD, but it does not seem to have matured much in the last 2-3 yrs. I think my pro carpenter buddy uses AutoCAD LT (light) which costs waaaay less than the real deal. Still, it's more like a T-sqr 'n triangles than SketchUp. ;)
nb
Jerry Osage wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
I'd suggest downloading it an playing with it. Leon explained about components, I'll add understanding the push-pull tool. Those two concepts will be very useful as you learn how to use it.
Try this simple thing: A hollow box with open side. Draw a square, then draw a square inside it. Use the push pull tool to pull the outer face to the desired height. (You can select the tool then enter the value.) Now use the push-pull tool to pull the inner face to the desired depth. Viola, a hollow box with open side!
Now, let's make the box useful for woodworking: Draw the top view of the box like you would a standard drawing. As you complete each part of the box, select it and choose "Make component." and make sure "replace selection with component" is checked. Once done, double click the component to edit it and use the push pull tool as above.
If you want the sides of the box to sit on the bottom face, that takes a little more effort but I think I can leave that exercise to the reader.
Puckdropper
It's easy, once you get your head straight. Don't think of it as a CAD system. Just build shapes. Learning the basics takes maybe a half hour. The rest can be picked up as you need it.
I'd suggest taking a look at Ashlar Graphite. It's a 3d wireframe system that originated on the Macintosh. I started using it sometime in the '90s and have never found anything nearly as good.
It's not cheap, but a temporary license is about $40 for a month. They seem to have promotions and "special offers", it's certainly worth inquiring about them, that's how I got it originally.
I'd be happy to answer questions, I have no affiliation apart from being a satisfied customer.
bob prohaska
Two comments for the OP.
Right on the download page without even having to open the TOS.
"The easy, fun, and free way to draw in 3D. SketchUp Make is not licensed for commercial work. "
I read the TOS sometime ago. Unless they have changed it you can't use it for any commercial work or for work that has commercial derivatives. Its only free for strictly personal use. Design a cabinet and sell the cabinet and it?s a violation of the TOS.
Here is from the TOS directly:
"2.2.1. SketchUp Make SketchUp Make Software is licensed only for non-commercial use for your internal business purposes. Non-commercial use means that you may not sell, rent, or lease the output of the Software. Any other use requires the purchase of a SketchUp Pro license. For example, if you are a for-profit organization of any kind, or an employee of a for-profit organization using the Software in that capacity, you are engaged in commercial activity; therefore, in order to use the Software, you must purchase a SketchUp Pro license. Government agencies are considered to be commercial users and must purchase a SketchUp Pro license."
There are some very tiny little grey areas maybe, but ...
I first used Sketchup back when users were still working on development in coordination with Google project coordinators.
Just a basic course in HS. Self taught after that.
I can see that, some of the things I have seen in SketchUp is amazing. It is just that I can whip up a set of usable plans on my drafting table and be in the shop working while I would still be futzing around with ShetchUp. Since I have no CAD training experience, ShetchUp is harder that it looks - at least to me.
Yes, after learning to do that, and make groups, things have gotten easier.
That seems to be the rub - I have no CAD experience - except that self-taught it was Hard to learn and I never progressed very far...
I guess I'm just impatient - and lack experience with using CAD. And things like - should these components be made into a group and then selecting the right thing if I want to modify it. There is no substitute for experience, and I don't have much with SketchUp - yet.
That may be a mistake... Thanks for all the input.
And to me that's counter-intuitive, but I figured it out. Well, actually the first tutorial told me. But I played around some before getting into the tutorials.
I guess I just need to devote more time to using it. I think I have a basic understanding of the basic tools -- however, I'm still waiting for that Click to happen.
What started this is that I made a quality, very well insulated, and heated Dog House. I have been adopted by three stray hound pups and it gets down into the low teens and sometimes single digits here.
I did a few rough sketches, jotted down the dimensions, made a materials list, bought everything and made the house.
Then.... I thought, What the Hell, I'll draw it up in SketchUp - it should be an easy project - I was wrong. I've spent more time than the whole project took - and still don't have it right in SketchUp. That has made me determined to learn it well enough that it is fun and not a chore. At least that is the plan...
Thanks everyone for your input.
I started to learn to use it, it's easy to get started, somewhat more complicated to do more complicated things.
I wish I could use it, but I don't use it often enough to retain the knowledge. If you use it regularly it is clearly the way to go. If you use it sporadically you may find yourself learning it over and over.
The OP simply stated that he wanted to "learn" Sketchup. he did not say he wanted to make money from his drawings.
Good enough, you should understand or remember the basics.
Certainly it is but the tutorials are very informative. I will add this . When drawing in 2D you typically show the front, top and side view of an object. Using triangles and a T-square you can put our lay out lines to extend to the top and side views from the front view. Unfortunately with paper and pencil you can make a mistake and if you are not good at visualizing yo may leave out details.
When you draw in 3D in Sketchup you can see mistakes instantly by simply rotating the object/part. If it does not look right it probably is not right. It is easy to determine if the drawing is doable.
Good to know that you have learned that and realize the importance. So many new to Sketchup, especially including myself, learn the hard way. I have a whole model of my home with no components. I make it work, after I finished the whole model of my home is a single component. For my furniture pieces, that I have designed/drawn for my home, I have inserted the pieces into the model home drawing to see how it will look when built and completed.
Keep after it and practice practice practice. Pick something simple you want to draw and review videos to accomplish what you want to do.
Be patient. For me it was, one day it clicked.
Lets say you want to draw a cabinet door. 2 rails, 2 stiles, and a center panel. Draw the top rail and make it into a component. Draw a stile and make it into a component. You have half the border of the door drawn. You can draw mirror images of both components again OR you can copy the stile and the rail component and /flip them into the correct orientation. Drag the parts together like you are putting them together in your shop. Draw and add your center component. right click the component and select flip, that can be done on any of the 3 axis, you end up with an end for end flip, a top to bottom flip, or a front to back flip. This takes a little time to learn which flip is necessary.
Now if you select all assembled components of the door you can right click and select make into a group. When you do this you can move the whole door assembly as a unit. Think of grouping components as gluing the pieces together in the shop.
The beauty to copying a component vs. drawing again is that if you copy a component one or a hundred times you can edit any one of the components and all copies of the component will reflect the edit/changes. If you want to change only component, say to have a hole for a knob of the door stile, right click and select make unique and then edit.
You will learn which method of editing is best for you. Remember you can make a copy of a deeply placed component and place the copy in an easy to view and edit location somewhere else on the drawing. After editing that copy, delete the copy and the original deeply hidden part will reflect the changes.
To edit, select the component and tipple click. You will see an edit box form around the component and all copies will grey out. Then do your editing. Or select the component and right click and select edit.
You can edit a component that is inside a group but it can get complicated. To ungroup, select the group, right click and select explode. This will work on a component also so be careful as you may turn a component into a bunch of lines that are difficult to edit or move.
Not a problem.
The OP simply stated that he wanted to "learn" Sketchup. he did not say he wanted to make money from his drawings.
********You seemed to be contesting my claim that it was not "really" free anymore. FYI: It looks like they watered down the language in the TOS a little bit from the last time I read it. I didn't read the whole thing looking for gotchas this time though. There may be some of the old excessively restrictive language buried in further pages.
Last time I read it the TOS basically restricted any use or supportive use that would or could generate any revenue.
I suppose I can concede that its free if you plan to not profit from it in any monetary form. LOL.
After you've played with the program a bit, I think it is easier to learn from a book. Important details go by to fast (for me) in videos. That said, I got to feeling pretty good about my abilities with SU, but I know if I tried it right now I would flounder, because I didn't keep using it. That said, it is more intuitive than the "vi" editor, and more fun too.
I've been using it for several hours today. And I forgot several times about making a component. And as Leon mentioned - that can be a real pain, especially since I didn't catch my mistake until it was much too late.
I have also learned to "save" often. That way when things fall apart - actually, all stuck together - I can do a "Restore" and go from there.
It's been real and it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun yet.
"internal business" use is OK
The "output of the Software" is a .skp file, so if you do not "sell, rent, or lease" your unique design efforts (your saved *.skp file) you are compliant with Trimble's license.
Trimble has tens of thousands of *free* user submitted SketchUp drawings (.skp files) just as Google did several ears ago.
It might help you get a better grasp on the program - to download, simple examples at first, gradually more complex designs.
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