Comments on Sketchup

[Marty]

I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several projects and am generally very happy with it.

I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a woodworking project. In several instances multiple files needed to be created for a project.

My comments are about the free version because, after looking at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have features that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind of money lying around.

I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the mechanics of using the program, but much of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to help with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawings.

I have two projects on the drawing board now that require two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find a way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions and other notations that I can build from.

For example, these projects each have a face frame with multiple components, each of which needs dimensions added, so the face frame needs to be separated from the carcass. Then the carcass needs to "taken apart" and details of the design (dado', rabbit' etc) annotated and add dimensions. Then doors need to be exploded and design details and dimensions added. I could go on but you get the idea.

At the very least I wish the program had the ability to add pages to the drawing so all of the design for a project would be in one file. I could then copy sub-assemblies (like doors, drawers, face frames etc) from one page to another, take apart the sub-assembly and annotate as needed. Also the ability to take apart a sub-assembly in a consistent manner would be nice. Are you listening Sketchup program designers?

I have added a cut list plug-in that helps with the cut list, but it is also requires some manipulation to get the results I need to buy materials and machine the parts.

Anyway that is my 2 cents worth. I will continue to use Sketchup as it is fun to use (most of the time :-) ) I just wish it had more features that us woodworkers need to build our projects.

Thanks for listening Marty

[Peter]

Try a program named Desktop pro 2000, i use it here to design and create kitchen cupboards ect ect You can scale your creations, store them and compare with your designs.It takes a few hours to get the main idea, but once you have crossed that hurdle it is smooth sailing

[Swingman]

The more proficient you become, the quicker it goes ..

Designing numerous complete kitchens with SketchUp, I've never found that a necessity.

Although in a file that includes numerous parts like a kitchen with 25 cabinets (each cabinet an individual component, made of all the individual cabinet components) and a complicated island, I will often "copy" and "paste in place" the island to an untitled file to work on it temporarily ... but, with proper use of "scenes" and "layers", this is not even remotely necessary ... just me being in a hurry and not wanting to inadvertently take the chance of moving one of hundred components that I may have forgotten to "lock" down.

Until SketchUP8, there was really no functional difference in the drawing/modeling side between free and Pro, with the Pro version offering advanced printing and presentation, mostly using the included "Layout" module.

Now the Pro version includes some solid modeling capability that is not included in the free version.

Personally, I think this direction is big mistake by Google, who seems to be getting a bit big for their internet britches lately.

SketchUp can indeed handle that easily, you just have yet become proficient enough with the program to do it. :)

In a word: "Scenes" and "Layers" ... learn them!

(Although I don't use it for exploded drawings (just explode them myself using "scenes and layers"), you may want to try the plugin ExplodeImplode from Smustard.com to see if it makes it easier for you).

Again, "Scenes" and "Layers" are what you want to learn how to wield.

Once you become proficient with these, and with thought and commonsense application of these two features, you can do exactly the above.

I could

The program will actually do exactly what you want it to do with only one file, but, as noted above, you need to become familiar/proficient with the use of both "scenes" and "layers".

Each of my individual kitchen design files often have 20 or more layers and dozens of scenes, all in the same file.

AAMOF, I use layers to such a degree/advantage, that I have a "kitchen design template" with over 25 "layers" already in place.

[SonomaProducts.com]

I have worked in the CAD software business for 20 years at my real job and have expertise in and have worked for some of the biggest CAD companies in this industry. Sketchup is by far the best at what it does. However, it is not really production CAD and especially as it relates to making drawings. I can create models in many of the most expensive 3D modelers and I prefer to use Sketchup for my own home work. However, I also use AutoCAD to make all my 2D drawings. I re- draw every part, measured from the Sketchup drawing. I believe I could save directly to AutoCAD from Pro Sketchup but I just use free version and can likely draw 2D faster in AutoCAD than the copy process would take.

For your case, you should make all pieces into components. The use the Outliner Tool under the Window menu to control the visibility of individual or groups fo components for creating drawings. I don't know if dimensions and text can have visibility controlled with Outliner because I don't do any of that in Sketchup, just models but if they can, then you have a total solution.

[SonomaProducts.com]

Super cool info. I just dove in headlong to SU a few years back and never looked for such typical tools. I just did modeling. Glad to hear they are there. Thx!

[Swingman]

Instead of just talk/BS, here's "some show and tell" regarding the use of layers (30 or so) and scenes (20+) with a complicated model with many parts and dimensions:

this is an actual kitchen design model, used for the both the clients input during the design stage, and for shop drawings for actual build ... it is scheduled to start build/installation very shortly ... it is not a drill. :)

(There is a color version, but I prefer the non-color for viewing)

CAVEAT: I closed it out using SketchUp8, so you will probably have to upgrade to 8 to open it ... something you will want to do as a SU usser in any event.

If this version thing causes someone a big problem, post back here and I will save it in 7 and put it up on the site also.

Let me know here of any download problems.

[Leon]

With anything worth learning it takes time, your mileage may vary. I came from AutoCAD LT, thought it was easy to learn but learning Sketchup was damn easy. It all depends on your drafting and CAD background. I have quite a bit of experience with several CAD and CAD style programs, Sketch us definately worth learning.

If you properly make each part of the project into a component, exploding takes little time. I typically can manually explode a 100 + part project in a couple of minutes. Keep in mind that you do no have to dimension you parts to understand their actual sizes. There are numerous plugins for Sketchup that will determine the number of pieces and the sizes each needs to be, I use Cutlist 4.0 as that plugin and that will give you what you need to know. However I take it a step farther and use Cutlist 4.0 to creat an import file for Cutlist Plus for determined cut lists and cost and sale reports. You need not explode a project for Cutlist 4.0 to do it's magic.

See above

You do not need seperate files, you simply need to copy what you want, to another area of the drawing. You have an infinite drawing area with each file.

See above, what manipulations are you talking about?

It does help to give each component a material name to seperate components make of different materials.

[Leon]

Actually IIRC I saw that when you save in 8.0 you can choose any of the past version formats to save the file in. You don't have to go back to Sketchup

7.0.

[Swingman]

The Pro version indeed addresses these issues with "Layout".

However, I too have used various 2D CAD programs down through the years (SU is not really "CAD" per se, it is 3D modeling software), and indeed find the SU/Layout combination a bit more fussy when doing a full blown set of _2D_ construction drawings ... although I have done just that as recently as last year for a house I completed last year.

I think that is probably more of a lack of operator proficiency on my part with Layout, as it is indeed another learning curve and I don't use it on a daily basis.

All said and done however, SU has been more than worth that bit of fuss for the _3D_ side of things.

... what you make on the banana's, you lose on the oranges. ;)

[Swingman]

You can indeed "save as" a file in any past version from SketchUp 8. :)

AAMOF, uninstalled 7 when I installed 8 (left the material and components folders because there are some nice ones with previous SU versions that are no longer in version 8).

[Lobby Dosser]

If you are really interested in the designers improving the product, may I suggest posting your comment directly to Google, in addition to here. Posting here gets real user information from people doing the same type of projects, but I suspect Google rarely dives into Usenet groups.

There are numerous free tutorials available and, if you don't mind shelling out the money, Popular Woodworking has a CD(DVD?) tutorial focused on woodworking. Intro and advanced at $25 a disk. I've not seen them and have no relationship to the company.

Link to Book:

to Tutorials: can download the tutorial.

[Bill]

>> Link to Tutorials:

>> You can download the tutorial.

I tried learning from the tutorials, and I did. But there were numerous subtle but very valuable details that I got from the book(s) that I would probably have never picked up from watching the videos. Surely having access to both resources is good. When you start counting the number of hours which one can put into this, the cost of the media seems to become less material. The only books I've used so far are the "dummys" book and the "cookbook" book. I may get the woodworkers book mentioned above. I didn't really enjoy reading the "dummys" book that much--but I picked up some important details from it.

Bill

[Leon]

I have not pulled 7 yet but used Opus to syncronize the folders under 7 to those in 8. ;~)

[Robatoy]

The people who bought my countertop business are doing all their proposals and quotes with SketchUp. They are vey happy with the freebie and learned quickly to sketch and dimension countertop layouts. Just playing with it at their office, I found that it has come a long way since the days I found it to be merely a toy. It's all growed ups now. =3Do) And my goodness, the quantity of support libraries and aps is just astounding. It still looks like shit, though....g,d & r.

[Swingman]

ROTFL ... agreed! ;)

Nice thing is that, if set up properly, SU does print much better than it looks on most PC screens.

For any software it's hard to control all the graphic display subsytems and screen resolutions it operates on.

[RicodJour]

Oh, so I guess this is your drive-by "I guess I was wrong to trash SU when I hadn't used it since Moses was a pup" apology?

Apology accepted.

There's an app for that. You can use plugins or other programs to tweak the SU model to make it photorealistic, though why someone would need to do that for a countertop layout, I have no idea. I take pictures of a material and use the JPG as a material in SU. You can't get more real than real.

R

[Robatoy]

It wasn't that long ago that the freebie still sucked canal water. I only 'trashed' (too strong a word, really, yours not mine) those who tried to pawn it off as full-blown CAD, which it wasn't and still isn't. Those who have a modicum of CAD knowledge have agreed with me on that. My criticism of SU at the time was well founded and I have nothing to apologize for. The fact that SU has evolved to this extent is wonderful. It does not negate my previous complaints about previous versions.

People who used to review Hyundai cars from days gone by are now finding them quite good. That did not make them wrong back in those days.

[Larry Jaques]

When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy each new version, too?

-- Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary. -- Peter Minard

[Bill]

On 9/16/2010 11:56 AM, RicodJour wrote: You can't

Really? : )

[Swingman]

As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour) the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.

The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.