vde screwdriver sets

[Fred]

Hi,

I was thinking of buying a set of vde screwdrivers. I thought I would get a "general purpose" set containing a couple of slotted, a couple of Philips (PH1 and PH2?) and a couple of Pozi (PZ1 and PZ2?). It seems that though you can get these "something of everything" mixtures in "ordinary" screwdrivers, vde sets come as slotted an Philips, or slotted and Pozi only. I wonder why?

I was wondering which set to buy but the more I think about it, I wonder does it matter? Most electrical connections the DIYer would come in contact with (excuse the pun) would be slotted. I'm thinking light switches, sockets, the plugs to go in the sockets, junction boxes all use slotted screws.

The only terminal I can think of in the home that is a cross of some sort is the screw on the MCB and without opening the CU, I can't remember whether that's PH or PZ, but even so a slotted driver would work.

So would you buy ph or pz or wouldn't it matter? Can you think of any cross headed electrical terminal screws?

I see there is a "plus-minus" screw; I imagine it was designed to be driven by whatever driver the electrician has to hand. Is that right or was there another reason? You can now get special plus-minus drivers but they seem horrendously expensive. Why would you bother buying one if you already had a PH or PZ driver?

TIA

[js.b1]

Buy the specific screwdrivers you need from Wera Laser line.

They have barbs on the surface of the tip which prevent the screwdriver tip from camming out when turning. It has made a lot of hinge replacements and "seized solid RCBO" replacement *very* easy indeed. Normal screwdrivers just cammed straight out and I could not get enough torque no matter what axial force was exerted along the shaft (which gets dangerous with glass around), so those jobs went unfinished. With the Wera I could use a Bahco spanner on the handle and less axial force along the shaft to remove them without much difficulty.

It is worth keeping a wide slotted spare for "difficult screws", the laser treatment does not last forever, but it can get you out of a difficult situation. CK are ok, but Wera in a different class entirely when you are stuck.

[John Rumm]

I find I routinely use three slotted drivers - large (occasionally for things like screws in henley blocks), "just right (tm)" - i.e. a medium sized driver that fits most terminal screws, and a small one for the occasional chock block terminal where the just right driver won't fit.

A small Philips PH1, and a PZ2 pozi are the others. The former rarely - but usually things like retaining screws on electrical appliances like fans etc. The larger pozi for MCB terminals, mainly where I find its easier to get a good grip without slipping out of the slot.

So buy individually is probably the best advice unless you can get a good set cheaply. I think mine are mostly Wiha, although I have some Stanley ones that came from the set. The latter have smaller diameter handles with less grip - but are slightly better suited to the task of spinning in long socket faceplate screws since you can twiddle them between your fingers. (although if doing many, the small 7.2V impact driver comes out!).

Wicks own brand are not too bad either IIRC.

[Tabby]

Unless you do live work, these things arent a necessity, and if you're lacking one can always use an ordinary bare shaft electrical screwdriver.

NT

[The Medway Handyman]

Lots of light fittings, extractor fans, cable grips etc need a cross head screwdriver. Don't think it matters in this context if the driver is PZ or PH.

Wickes do a nice little set

arounf £10. Good quality, mine are 5 years old & going strong.

Those "plus-minus" screws are a right PITA IMO. Neither fish nor fowl.

I prolly would buy a "plus-minus" driver. Got any links?

[Dave Osborne]

Because pretty much all switchgear/accessories used in the UK is specific to the UK/Europe and is made in UK/Europe.

Three types of screw are use, viz. slotted, PZ and Modulo.

Electricians sets with slotted and Phillips are likely to have been made for the North American market.

Yes. Don't bother buying Philips electrician's screwdrivers. You're never going to work on anything live that has a Philips head.

Most electrical connections the DIYer would

I'm thinking

But every screw in your (modern) consumer unit is Modulo.

It's Modulo.

Buy PZ or Modulo. Or preferably PZ and Modulo.

You can indeed drive a Modulo screw head with either a slotted or a PZ driver, but the CK Modulo screwdrivers give the best torque performance.

Is that right

No more expensive than the slotted or PZ equivalent.

Why would you bother

Yes. There's only two in the set and you can get them for a little over a tenner the set from eBay.

HTH.

[The Medway Handyman]

Even less at TLC Direct

for the name Dave. Didn't know what to google for.

[Andy Dingley]

Pozi when they ought to, we see hybrid screws like this that fit neither very well.

So now the careful workers have to buy a _fourth_ sort of screwdriver tip!

[The Medway Handyman]

One of many things done to 'make life easier' which makes life harder.

And why do they supply PH screws with curtain poles, towel rails, shelves etc?

And why do instructions always say 'you will need a cross head screwdriver'? What type of piggin cross head?

I shall be purchasing a set on Monday.

[Fred]

Thanks. I was told this off-list but it was nice to hear someone confirm it. I don't understand if PH is for the US, why they are on sale here?

But outside the CU, will the DIYer ever encounter them?

Sorry I didn't know the real name; I saw them at Toosltation where they were called plus-minus and were fourteen pounds a pair. To confuse things further, TS do two varieties a slot-Ph hybrid (presumably for Americans abroad?) and a slot-Pz hybrid.

I notice you said CK. I didn't know much about the brand but the local electrical wholesaler sells a lot. Is it one of the best brands for electrical tools generally?

The link you gave mentioned that modulo screwdrivers give better torque. I am confused about this. How should having a slightly longer slot give better torque? Surely Pozis are pretty good for this already; is extra torque really needed? I realise you don't want wires falling out but isn't being over tightened just as bad?

Thanks again.

[Fred]

Thanks for the link to the Wickes set. Sorry I didn't give you a link but the TLC item you found looks unbeatable. For my use, I'm not sure I'd go into a CU enough to justify one. I'm surprised you get to venture into many; I thought part-p had stopped that. I had to read your post a couple of times because I couldn't understand why, if they were a PITA, you wanted to buy some but then I eventually realised it was because they were a PITA you wanted a proper driver. Sorry for being slow on the uptake!

[Fred]

I don't do live work and wouldn't encourage anyone to do so, it doesn't seem worth the risk. That's why I was wondering what I should get or if I needed to bother at all.

[Fred]

Thanks, that's help explain it to me. I really couldn't see why anyone needed this fourth type if either of the other two worked well. It seems that that's the problem: they don't. I wonder why the industry has tried to reinvent the wheel? Why not just specify they must all be slotted or all pozi, rather than specify a new type all together?

[Dave Osborne]

Because slotted-PH sets are made in larger quantities than slotted-PZ sets (and are therefore cheaper than slotted-PZ sets) and the idiots that import them don't know (or care) any better.

Having said that, all the major European tool companies make Philips VDE screwdrivers, so there must be professional demand from industry.

Not that I can think of offhand.

CK tools are good, as are any pretty much any tools made in Germany, including Wiha, Wera, Stahlwille, etc.

Bear in mind also that a lot of manufacturers specialise in particular types of tool and buy the rest in from their competitors, so, for example, Britool VDE electricians screwdrivers are made by Stanley.

You will *always* get the best torque performance out of a driver that is specifically designed for a particular fastener. With a modulo (or plusminus) screwdriver, there is no chance of cam-out and little chance of over-tightening, because modulo screwdrivers are not very long[1]. You can therefore (pretty much) tighten until you run out of torque and be confident you're not going to overdo it.

No probs.

[1] slotted screwdrivers tend to be longer than cross-head screwdrivers. Longer means more torque can be transferred to the screw-head. If you overdo it a longer screwdriver is more likely to twist the head off the fastener.

[The Medway Handyman]

I don't go anywhere near CU's, but lots of socket outlets & things use these poxy screws.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Fred saying something like:

They crop up on a lot of terminals.

[Tabby]

Surely the risk is about zero if youre not doing live work. I'll use the insulated ones if theyre with me, if not I dont fuss about it.

NT

[Tabby]

Since when did tool sellers know our business? Some do, but too many don't at all. And since when did many of them care anyway - plenty still sell neon screwdrivers.

pozislot

CK is good quality kit. I'm not sure what would make any basic hand tools 'the best.'

Overtightening can squash the soft copper conductor too much, resulting in a higher R joint and heating. Or in some cases strip the threads. Undertightening is much more common.

NT

[Chris J Dixon]

I know what you mean, but how does it work? Logically, the length of the shaft ought not to have an influence, whereas the diameter of the handle should.

Chris

[The Medway Handyman]

I know these things are not well liked around here - could you elaborate on the 'why' please?

IME undertightening is very common on switches & sockets.