bench grinder recommendations

Hi,
I've got a few blunt chisels, so I'm looking for something to sharpen them. I was thinking of getting a bench grinder.
Can someone tell me if I have understood what I have read here. I think the advice is that wood chisels should be sharpened on a wet stone (whet stone?) or not on a grinder at all (oil stone or diamond thingy).
For cold chisels, bolster chisels, and the like, dry grinding wheels would be ok. There are a lot of models with two wheels: coarse and fine, but at what point do you move the chisel from one to the other?
If I bought a whetstone model, I would lose the fine wheel. Would that be a great loss?
I'm not sure about sds chisels. Some old threads mentioned something about green discs being necessary to sharpen them or have I "misremembered" that? Are they a harder material that needs a special disc?
TIA
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I've got a number of them, but rarely use them. Really only for tools on the metalworking lathe.
The one I do use, and that only for tools for the wood lathe, is a combination with a small fast wheel and a large wet wheel. I only use the wet wheel.
For woodworking tools, I use another grinder a Record / Scan wet wheel grinder with a better stone (Like a Tormek, but cheaper). I might buy another of these, so as to have two stones handy. I use this a lot for resurrecting old and damaged woodworking tools, but my actual sharpening is done by hand on a range of Japanese water stones.
If you want a big cheap wet wheel, get a combination machine. I wouldn't advise a double ender, as it's just not that much use (I prefer an angle grinder).

Broadly yes. If in doubt, get hold of Leonard Lee's book "Sharpening".

They''re OK, but I don't use mine for this, I clamp the chisel in a vice, then take an angle grinder to it. For most purposes with chisels, especially curved gouges, this is easier.
If you have an angle grinder, you already have a grinder. If you don't have an angle grinder, get one first.

Usually by never using the poor quality coarse wheel at all. Cheap grinders have some very nasty wheels on them. Cheap wheels also tend to be "hot" compositions that burn steel. Better grades of wheel run cooler and are much more useful. Look for pink or white wheels.

No - but get one where the dry wheel is usefully fine.

"Green" wheels are needed for carbide tools. It's not often you need to put an edge on a carbide tool, most of the chisels will still run fairly blunt. Many carbide tools that look like they need it are actually damaged beyond repair. You can also sharpen tungsten carbide on a silicon carbide angle grinder flap wheel, although the wear rate is high.
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On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 10:43:06 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley

Thanks for the informative post. Are all sds chisels carbide, even the cheap ones?
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Pretty much all SDS drill bits, but not the chisels.
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On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:40:39 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
Thanks. At the moment I don't think I'll be sharpening any drill bits, just the chisels. Mine have got blunted from making back boxes for sockets, and chiseling concrete floors etc.
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On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 14:47:19 +0100, Fred wrote:

A useful tool, I only have a cheap double ended coarse/fine one. The only chisels I sharpen on it are cold or bolsters. Wood working chisels are sharpened by hand on an oil stone, they only need grinding if you've taken a great hunk out of the cutting edge by hitting a nail or somthing.
Axes get sharpened on it and other general grinding. Want a scriber, grind a large nail, worn out screwdriver grind it to a bradall, head too large ona screw or bolt grind it smaller.
--
Cheers
Dave.




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Wood working

I think you will find this is incorrect. Woodworking tools like chisels or plane blades are ground on a grinder, be it bench, floorstanding, circular or horizontal. A bench stone is then used to hone it to a fine edge. In use, the tool is frequently refreshed on the bench stone. Eventually the tool will lose its edge and regrinding is required. So the circle goes. It pays to ensure that any foreign objects, such as a nail, have been removed prior. I won't even start on about a strop and crocus powder :))
Nick.
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On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 22:49:48 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"

What about twist drills? I must admit that I don't sharpen mine all that often...
--
Frank Erskine

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wrote:

A tricky one this, you need to know the geometry at the tip. There are two cutting edges, each with a flute in front to clear swarf. the angle between is 120 degrees from memory. BUT you must not sharpen like a "cone", this prevents penetration into work, just rubbing/friction. Now think in direction you push drill...Cutting angle is needed, this is provided by flute in front of cutting edge. Then clearance angle is needed, this is provided by face following cutting edge, it must "fall away". ie. the leading edge of face(cutting edge) is closer to workpiece than trailing edge. You can sharpen by lining up twist drill with wheel (30 degrees off centre), cutting edge touching wheel, push in gently whilst rotating clockwise, AND with slightly increasing pressure. Takes some practice. Too much pressure will produce lop sided angle. You do need to see what you are producing, so drills smaller than 5mm I chuck when blunt!
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On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 23:59:11 +0100, Frank Erskine wrote:

I have a Martek drill sharpener thingy... bought a long time ago well before I got a bench grinder. Not sure I'd want to attempt to sharpen a drill on the bench grinder but pretty much any new drill will be sharpened before use. 'Cause out of the packet they ain't sharp, I was quite surprised how much sharper my ordinary HSS drills were after a trip through the Martek.
--
Cheers
Dave.




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Probably not the answer you are seeking, but it may be worth learning the basics of sharpening before investing in any machinery. There are many items that require sharpening, there are many ways of doing so and many different, and differing, friction materials. After many years I can put a reasonable edge on most common cutting tools, but twist drills still baffle me. Amongst quite a few books I have, I would recommend one by Jim Kingshott ~ 'Sharpening. The complete guide'. ISBN 0946819483 or (Amazon.com product link shortened) is not complete but gives a good insight and has served me very well. The focus is mainly on woodworking tools. No connection with the author, I just like the book. If/when you get a bench grinder- buy a good one that will suit your needs. Decent quality stones to match your requirements are essential.
HTH Nick.
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On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 23:35:19 +0100, "Nick"

Thanks. I will look into this and the book that Andy recommended too.
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On 15/10/2010 14:47, Fred wrote:

Wet stone - (whetstone is a CPU benchmarking program!).

I have a machine like this, and use it for things like cold chisels, SDS chisels, or any other coarse grinding. I would not take wood chisel near unless it was badly out of shape - and even then only vary carefully to save overheating it. So all in all it has its uses, but its not a woodworkers sharpening machine.

Probably not. Depends on what you go for. Things like the Tormek or the Jet have a wet end and a leather stropping wheel on the other. I am tempted by one of these machines myself, but keep reading conflicting arguments as to which are better. There is also a more sensibly priced axminster wet machine, that would probably do - although it lacks the honing wheel.

My Armeg and QDS ones seem to sharpen just fine on the traditional dry grinder.
--
Cheers,

John.

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Which comes from a term for a sharpening stone. Sharpening is whetting. (To whet one's appetite is to sharpen it). So what the OP wants is a wet whetstone.
--
Jón Fairbairn snipped-for-privacy@cl.cam.ac.uk
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2010-09-14)
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N20 in the winter
--
geoff

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N20 !
but also a sharpening stone and a stone circle amongst other things

--
geoff

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On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 03:25:02 +0100, John Rumm

As it happens, it was the axminster I was looking at. They sell this one: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-awwsg-wetstone-grinder--240v-prod809134 /
which is ten pounds cheaper than the one at machine mart and they seem so similar in spec that I wonder whether it is the same machine painted in a different colour:
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cbg8w-whetstone-grinder
Machine mart put the "h" in wet, which is why I wasn't sure of the spelling.
Axminster also sell this one: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-awdwsg-wetstone-grinder--240v-prod781392 /
Which I think is the same model but with a clamp to hold your chisel at the right angle, which sounds a good idea but it adds a lot to the price.
I have heard great things about axminster here but never bought from them before.
I have looked into the two books mentioned in earlier replies but both seem out of print but are available second hand.
Thanks to everyone who has replied so far.
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On 27/10/2010 14:00, Fred wrote:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-awwsg-wetstone-grinder--240v-prod809134 /
Similar - but a little different in casework and switching judging by the photos

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-awdwsg-wetstone-grinder--240v-prod781392 /
If I were getting one then I would say the bar attachment is important, since it ought to take the jigs designed for the Jet and Tormek sharpeners. These greatly extend the range of things you can sharpen.

Yup, good people to deal with generally, and reports from those who have discussed tools with them, suggest they know their stock well.
--
Cheers,

John.

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On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 15:42:13 +0100, John Rumm
Thanks. Sadly the reviews on the site complain about the bar: poor welding and not being straight.
Are these attachments available separately and can be fitted to any grinder?
One last question: I see many places sell a metal stand for grinders, in the region of thirty-forty pounds. Why is the stand almost as much as the grinder? Is it just that it is heavy so expensive to transport?
Is the stand worth having or do you bolt yours to your bench?
Thanks.
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On 27/10/2010 21:51, Fred wrote:

It seems a bit of bending about can fix it. Some reviews of the much higher end Jet machine have made similar comments as well it seems.

The jigs are, the tool rest needs specific holes in the grinder to locate in though.
(most of the wet grinders seem to share a common rest design though)

Partly bulk I guess. I doubt they sell them in anything like the numbers that the grinder sell in - so the prices won't be as competitive.

They are fine on a bench[1] - although a dedicated stand might be nice to free some bench space!
[1] They can wander a bit from vibration if not screwed down.

--
Cheers,

John.

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