TOT: The Fishlake flood

[Java Jive]

I have no doubt there was and is a lot of distress and misery, but playing the emotional card is rather moving the goal-posts, isn't it? The point at issue is not what people are suffering in this particular instance, but what in general is the best course of action for people facing the imminent prospect of flooding, and the only thing so far that you've said that justifies people rushing off into the night in highly dangerous road conditions is that they live in a bungalow, but even then you have admitted that they do have some sort of area upstairs to which they could have retreated.

I repeat, when faced with a threat like this, it's nearly always best to stay put where you have some shelter and somewhere to keep dry, drinking water, warm clothing, etc, and if you live in a flood-prone area, ensure that these things will always be available by planning in advance. You don't have to be 'bloody clever' to know this, it's bog-standard advice, like staying by your vehicle if you break down in a wilderness area.

[Tweed]

Well said

[Java Jive]

No, it's a sort of emotional blackmail - he didn't need to start a thread in the first place describing his family's predicament, didn't need to defend his actions on a personal basis when people were talking in general terms what the best course of action in such situations is, and doesn't need to continue it now. Playing the emotional 'joker' is merely a sign that he's begun an argument that he now feels he is losing.

[Tweed]

Well I know who I?d like with me in an emergency, and it?s not you.

[Andrew]

Inversely proportional to the number of people who use the phrase "they should do something about it"

[Java Jive]

You're welcome to the frail old man!

[Tweed]

You?ve gone from offensive to deeply offensive.

[Java Jive]

Why, that's how he described himself?!

[Tweed]

There?s a difference between being self-deprecating and deprecating. The former is a typically British trait.

[Bill Wright]

Do you know exact road levels in your area within a couple of feet?

Bill

[Bill Wright]

No because they had it on good authority that there wouldn't be significant flooding.

Bill

[Bill Wright]

No, it's telling you what actually happened.

Bill

[Bill Wright]

What you don't seem to have grasped is that they didn't know whether the water would be two feet deep or 10 feet deep. Previous warnings, remember, had been that if the bank near the village breached there could be a sudden deluge that would briefly be 8 or more feet deep, and would have the power to destroy houses. The water came from the main road end first and that wasn't too scary, but when it started to come from the river end it seemed that the bank was breaching. So everyone in the street fled.

Bill

[Java Jive]

This is all emotional blarney, but to answer it ... I don't see his long OT rambling post about rescuing his family from Fishlake as being self-deprecating - in fact, if I was really as unkind as you are trying to make me out to be, I would be claiming that he was making himself out to be the hero of the day, but, let me stress, although rationally a case *could* be made along those lines, I have no wish actually to make it, if only because it's a pointless argument that doesn't really matter - nor do I see any harm in using the same words to describe him as he used to described himself, particularly in the context of surviving a hypothetical emergency, where you were choosing a "frail old man" in favour of someone who thinks ahead to avoid the worst of the emergency in first place! If you wish to be so irrational, fine, as I said before, you're welcome, but in saying so you're being as emotionally irrational as he was in flaring up unnecessarily in the first place.

What really *matters* here is what is the best course of action if a similar situation occurs again, and it's certainly *not* to leave your home at midnight, pile your family into the car, and drive off into waters of unknown depth in a vehicle not built to cope with such atrocious and extreme conditions - a tractor and trailer, possibly, but an average family car, certainly not. The result was entirely predictable, they got stranded, and had to call out a "frail old man" to rescue them. Suppose Bill's vehicle had been swept away trying to rescue them, and he had been drowned as a result, what would they have felt then, I wonder? Basically, there's no avoiding saying this, his death would have been their fault. Fortunately he's still here to get angry with me, but I hope that next time they they prepare themselves better for such emergencies and follow the standard advice, which is to stay where you are safest until you can be rescued.

[Bill Wright]

If driving twenty miles to pick up your daughter and her family is what you call 'heroic' you must be a very timid and selfish person. It's what anyone would do, without a moment's hesitation.

As I've explained there was the distinct possibility based on previous warnings that if the bank near the houses had breached the resulting deluge would almost certainly have drowned everyone in its way.

The result was entirely

Do you really think I'm going to drive into water that's too deep for the vehicle? I've been driving for 50 years. I don't do stupid things. Incidentally I was in a 3.5 tonne diesel van. Much more capable than a family car.

Bill

[Java Jive]

The fact that you *only* answered the emotional part and snipped *all* the rational arguments being made tells me, and should tell you, that you were trying to move the goal-posts!

[Java Jive]

I certainly know the local areas most likely to flood.

[Bill Wright]

Well the place where they got stranded was no more than a foot lower than the end of their road. How would they know that? It was half a mile away from home. How could they know?

Bill

[Dave Liquorice]

Not knowing is all the more reason to stay put surely?

For most cars you'd need to know the road level to less than a foot and have a clue how to drive through water that deep. Banking or chamber can make all the difference...

[Java Jive]

The nearest places most likely to flood around here are about 2 and 6 miles away from my home, yet I know exactly where they are, and probably all the others east as far as Golspie, south east as far as Tain, and south as far as Dingwall. In addition, there are other places where streams run across even main roads in heavy rain, or at least there will a dangerous amount of surface water, and I think by now I probably know most of those as well. There are other roads I don't drive at all in snowy conditions. Isn't this all just knowing one's local patch?