Tidy?

Not here it doesn?t.

The latest is deep-fried Colin/Cuthbert the Caterpillar cake

It's when you start to think of even chocolate containing milk and therefore being off-limits to vegans that I think some people have got their morality:enjoyment-of-life balance a bit skewed ;-) I have great admiration for people who respect animals to that extent, but I like meat and animal products too much (and hate the alternatives too much) to entertain it myself.

As a matter of interest, is there any reason why chocolate can't be made with non-animal milk (eg soya/oat milk)?

What? Where have you been FFS, living in a cave for the last 10 years!

Do you not have a TV and see any adverts, do you not go shopping and look around as you move, or do you just buy a freezer full of animal carcases and munch your way though those? ;-(

Yes, if you think it's 'ok' to enjoy your life at the cost of an animals (when you don't 'need' to) and risk your own health in the process then I guess you would do?

Again, it all seems to be about you and you don't appear to have much of an actual clue about the alternatives?

I have about 10 bars of (dark, my preference, daughter has just done our shopping) vegan chocolate in the fridge and the Mrs has similar number in white chocolate (her preference). We have plain and almond vegan Magnum ice creams in the freezer, a cupboard filled with vegan crisps and cereal bars and vegan pizza, burgers and sausages in the freezer (along with all the frozen veg of course).

I now fancy a last cuppa (before bed), using oat milk and with one of my home made vegan rock cakes ...

Cheers, T i m

Are you saying you ate bovine secretions laced with puss?

It's an excuse when animals are subjected to unnecessary pain and suffering. Something you admitting to not caring about while the animal is alive.

An admission you act like a troll, and by definition a troll.

You're not coming across as being very bright.

Another lie. Your memory is failing you.

In much the same way you are called a fanatical vegan to differentiate between the ordinary vegans who are decent people.

That claim makes you a fanatical remainer.

No, you're a fanatic.

The proof is a post saying you don't care about animal welfare while a an animal is alive. Is you're memory so poor?

It's not BS.

I am content to sign petitions surrounding the import of foie gras. You won't because you don't care about animal welfare while an animal is alive.

It's not BS.

That's because your parents wanted you to have a natural balanced diet. Even you feed your dog meat products knowing it assist in a wholesome diet.

One that provides facts you don't like to hear.

Yes, in much the same way there are so many species of dog.

Yes, you hate animals and want them to become extinct.

Not another lost argument.

Why would he do that?

Irrelevant, my comment was about abusing people when you've lost an argument.

The following is abuse, calling people, a childish troll, left brainer, Neanderthal and raping my wife, hearing voices.

I call someone who admits to not caring about animal welfare whilst an animal is alive but show envy when our loved ones allow us to eat meat and meat products, to be the lowest of the low.

Great. You finally accept when you have no further case to put forward and resort to abuse it is a sure sign to everyone around you your argument is lost.

He is trying to make the point that some chocolate doesn't contain milk products and Vegan ice cream is made from peas.

I'd think vegans are less life-skewed than most. For a start, they haven't got that 'I love animals but still like eating them' dissonance rattling around their brains.

As for liking non-human based food, I was surprised to see how easy it was for me to cut those products out. Couple of days usually. I'd still pine for some things - usually real crap, like sausages. We're just socialised to like certain foods and it so happened my partner was vegan - so maybe it was easier for me. (FWIW, I do occasionally have things like cheese and meat - laziness).

Surprised you needed to ask - thought it was common knowledge. Aldi do some decent chocolate that is also vegan.

It does make you wonder what rock these people live under eh. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Of course. 'Most people' don't like killing most living things (some draw the line at spiders and wasps, I don't) and most could never kill a pig, cow, sheep or goat and would likely feint or a least throw up / suffer nightmares if they visited an abattoir.

It's this disconnection of the moral / physical responsibility between their morals and their actions they pay others to do on their behalf that allows them to eat meat.

This gives a reasonably honest insight as to the life inside those windowless sheds, as seen by a real human being (not a psychopath). ;-)

Yup, logical inconsistency (eat a lamb but not a dog) fuelled by cognitive dissonance (I know what happens to animals and don't like it but I'm now conditioned to eat meat and am addicted to it (fats actually). ;-(

Same here. I was already off dairy on doctors orders (5 years) and we have never been big meat eaters and even that has been reducing slowly over the last few years. We went 'cold Turkey' on everything else in Veganuary last year and it really hasn't been an issue.

I'm guessing you have / tried all the vegan alternatives Rob (I appreciate they are processed but still better than meat)? [1] We like all we have tried (some more than others) but if you are looking for something familiar (shape / texture / taste) to fill some psychological role (and we often do, like on a fried breakfast) then we have found they are fine. Further, I *really* don't miss the random bits of bone, gristle or other 'surprises' you can often find in processed meat. ;-)

And often from a very early age. And strangely, even though veganaism (in practice if not in name) has been practiced by many for thousands of years, it's never been easier than it is today and looking to get even easier.

In our case it was our daughter learning that things like 'Red Tractor' or 'RSPCA approved' meant little to the animals that still suffered and died, felt she had to go further (and vegetarianism was little better because dairy is probably worse than meat or eggs).

Judging by the ignorance of some re what's available in a form that everone can eat (vegans and carnists alike) by some here, having someone to guide you initially can be handy, unless you are interested enough to look into it yourself (and there is no excuse for not doing that these days with Google etc). ;-)

We have used up most of what (animal based food) we had left in the freezer / cupboard and so the only chance we would have of eating meat / dairy / eggs is if we were out, but given all the fast food places do a vegan range (Gregg's are about to add two more vegan item off the back of the massive interest in their vegan sausage rolls, 'steak bake' and donuts, even opening another 200 stores I believe ...) and would probably go hungry rather than eating anything animal based these days (with the thoughts of what each animal had to suffer / lose to bring the food to us).

We were out later than expected the other day and I popped into a Tesco Express before getting in a dog walk and bought a couple of vegan wraps, some vegan crisps (many are anyway etc) and drinks etc. The wraps, not tried by us before were lovely so that's another 'option' we have found. ;-)

And this is the thing. When discussing the whole veganism concept with people I assume I knew as much about it when I first started but that's obviously not the case. I wonder if it's a function of age, the older you are the least likely you might be to being open minded, change lifestyle to something you see to be 'better'?

Like if there are 'milks' that don't involve all the mess of taking it from cows, why wouldn't you use them instead?

Yup, daughter is local to an Aldi so I believe she get's quite a bit there first, then Salisbury's (my pissy 4 for £1 lager is only available there (and is vegan) and possibly Tesco / Iceland for all the frozen stuff (veg / ice creams / burgers / sausages / mince).

She found some 'ready to eat' Chicken Tikka the other day that would go lovely in a salad (we had it heated in a 'kebab') and some 'Chicken Teriyaki strips' that were perfect in a stir fry (with some vegan spring rolls).

I guess if you have eaten the same thing, 'meat and two veg' every day, 'fish on Fridays ...' for most of your life then even the change from that would be too much for some. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

(I made a tub of it that kept in the fridge for a good time and served us over several different types of meal. I didn't use some of the 'extra' bits, like mustard and was the first time I'd used / eaten quinoa etc).

Yup.

So naturally unnatural. ;-)

If we (humans) got wiped out by say a pandemic (that may have started by our exploitation of animals etc), those mutated livestock would die.

I'm pretty sure it isn't. Imagine being trapped with a situation that you couldn't survive without human intervention, like having an itch you can't scratch. ;-(

I'm glad you phrased it that way Paul as it's a very important point ... 'their'.

Quite, just has *every* trade that changed over the years, like slave traders, wheelwrights, thatchers, miners, hangmen and witch finders etc. ;-)

Yup ... and personally I won't miss them (only because they shouldn't be here in the first place, they haven't 'evolved' over millennia, we have forced particular characteristics, many of which end up costing the animal in some way (genetic weaknesses, especially, the inability to survive in the wild or even reproduce!)).

Cheers, T i m

Yes you do.

Cheers, T i m

Who pays for that ?. Ain't free or cheap.

And how more tax are you, personally prepared to pay ?, in order to feed them, house them and pay for vetinary bills (because if you keep them confined and they need vetinary attention, and they are prevented from getting it, then the RSPCA will prosecute you).

Now tot up the total number of cows, sheep, pigs, geese, ducks etc.

Please don't bother with 'let them roam freely' argument, because you cannot allow dairy bulls to roam free. They are dangerous.

There is no 'free' NHS for anaimals, and your bonkers plan would cost so much, we would no longer have the money for a 'free' NHS for humans.

In *where* ??. I live in the real world, and it is sunny today. Not sure about your La-La land though.

what correct answer ?. That misquided clowns like you would happily exterminate entire breeds, or large parts of, simply to suit their warped personal agenda ?.

Just about sums you up doesn't it ?.

Drop where ?, and from whence is "it" going to fall from ?

Doesn't seem to affect surgeons carrying out organ transplants or hip-joint replacements day after day.