Stupid, stupid, stupid! Left garden hose on...

[Huge]

I'd be happy to do some observational research.

[dennis]

Its because you let them. No research required.

[Clive George]

NHS not only keeps me alive, it does a very good job of it. To me that counts as good.

None of the best education comes from a company which has to make a profit for the shareholders.

There we go, two massive counterexamples to your delusional idealism.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Its because they dont pay for it.

[MM]

>

"I've left the hosepipe on". This morning I wanted to take my ipad to work so I sent myself an email, but I left the ipad on my clothes so I wouldn't forget.

remmebr to collect the take the ipad :-).

I've got a spare Basic Stamp handy and am thinking of a device that would sound an alarm if water is detected flowing through a pipe. Anyone got an idea what kind of sensor I'd need? I wouldn't want to cut the pipe of course. There must be something that can detect water flow through a standard copper pipe, no?

MM

[MM]

Look up "self abuse".

MM

[Dave Liquorice]

Bog standard flow detector but you'f have to cut the pipe to install it.

But why bother:

it's under the clearance section and there is sod all info about it.

to cut the pipe but gives a simple switch closure on flow >

0.5l/min, so the stamp just needs to monitor that and alarm if the switch is closed for a long time. FSVO "long".

[Tim Streater]

It may be keeping you alive, but you have no idea whether they're doing a good job ("good" in this context means at something approximating to the lowest possible cost while still achieving the desired end).

Keep dreaming.

Really? You know this, do you? You make the typical error of assuming that people working for private companies are *only* motivated by profit. Profit has to be made, shareholders or not, because otherwise the enterprise goes bust. Which is a good way of weeding out outfits that are wasting society's resources.

Nice try. Don't give up the day job though.

[Clive George]

Goal post shifting there. A good job doesn't necessarily have to be lowest cost - from the end user's point of view it merely has to be acceptable cost.

Is there any health system you regard as better than the NHS? You can't mean the US one, because that's way more expensive and therefore doesn't count as doing a good job in your book.

Um, yes. Do you have any counterexamples? Even the best schools in the private sector aren't profit-making.

There are other motives beyond profit, and profit isn't required to stay afloat, merely the lack of loss. It is possible to run successful private organisations without profit. Many private schools are examples.

Seem to be spanking you right now.

[tony sayer]

In article , dennis@home scribeth thus

Ah!, I take it you haven't got teenage daughters then Den...

[Tim Streater]

But that's meaningless in this context. In the UK, the end-user's cost is zero. So as I said above, you've no idea whether they're doing a good job or not. Except that when there are stories in the media about e.g. a woman dying of dehydration in front of the nurses' noses, you start to wonder.

That's right. I'd be more inclined to look at the French, or German ones, which seem to be provided in large part by the private sector, without the childish hangups about "profit" that we see in the UK. When I lived in Switzerland, health cover had by law to be provided by the employer - so everyone was covered. There were less than 100 people out of work in the whole country at the time. Today that model would be slightly broken, I imagine, and I don't know what the story there is now. I had two ops in Geneva, one done in a private clinic, the other in a private hospital. No problems with either, and they were done at the day/time previously specified.

That's my point.

Profit in the sense of paying shareholders, agreed. But they still have not to make a loss - i.e. break even or make a profit. The difference with the state sector is *competition*, which forces them to be more efficient.

[Clive George]

We both know that the end-user's cost for the NHS is not zero. A fairly simple sum involving how much tax you pay and the proportion going on the NHS yields the answer.

Would you like the associated higher tax rates etc? I'd like the French or German models, and would be prepared to pay for them, but I've never seen you expressing anything but the desire to go the other way.

Small rich countries are a lot easier to provide services for.

I've had two ops done in the UK in the past few years, both in a public hospital, no problem with either, and performed at the required day/time.

Not your original point.

Funny, this started with you stating the difference was profit.

Competition isn't necessarily the best way to achieve the efficiencies you desire. It's not a natural state of many markets, and there are plenty of places where trying to force a competitive market doesn't actually help.

[geoff]

In message , Tim Streater writes

What are you on about ?

"Like, water > falls out of the sky for nothing, so constant uninterrupted pure water > should be piped to my house and the sewage taken away for nothing.

Now the rationing has finished why not:-)"

[The Natural Philosopher]

You don't think any woman is gonna get shagged by Den? If there is anything else available.

[Tim Streater]

So no discernible point at all, then. Fair enough.

[ARWadsworth]

Well when I was married to a teenager it was because I used to join her in the shower.

A couple of later studies after the divorce also found the same thing.

[Andy Burns]

A 30something bloke marrying a teenage foreign bird, what could possibly go wrong? In fact, I can't think of anyone I know that got married at

18 or 19 where it has lasted ...

[soup]

Costs me nothing (extra), all watering for the garden is done from the water in a butt. Our water is unmetered and the reservoir is two miles up the road AND it iPsses with rain ALL the time (slight hyperbole), mind you I am in Scotland.

[tony sayer]

Aww ;.. thats a bit below the belt NP;!...

[Tim Streater]

Obviously. But the end user doesn't see the costs directly and the organisation itself has no incentive to do anything about them. That is the point.

Are there higher tax rates related to their systems? BTW, I'd be prepared to pay for extras too, just as I did in Switzerland (better accommodation at hospital costs more, but you get a smaller %age back from the insurer). Of course, in this country

No, it started with me saying that providing services (water, in this case), costs money, but that people have a funny attitude about such provision in some cases (in this case water) here. You then brought in the NHS.

That may appear to be true in some cases, perhaps the railways are an example. But the competition there, really, is between various modes of transport of which the railways are one. And no mode of transport has an automatic right to exist, either. As they will find out in California.

This thread is now officially boring, but feel free to have the last word.