Soft-fill cistern issue ?

[Harry Bloomfield]

NY formulated the question :

It's a simple thing to arrange an overflow to discharge into the bowl, even on older toilet designs - Overflow pipe to a tundish, then tundish discharges via a pipe over top of bowl/ under seat.

At least one UK manufacture of cistern parts Dudley, offers a syphon with a built in overflow discharge mounted at the inside/base, with a vertical pipe going up to set the overflow level.

Dudley's turbo 88 has a built in early warning of over flow - as the level rises too high, it will overflow the syphon and discharge into the bowl, before it rises to the usual through the wall type overflow. I have one and have tested it - it is not adequate to cope with a the fill valve wide open, but can cope with a slight overflow. As such it will give overflow warning both inside the house and outside.

[Harry Bloomfield]

Part of the problem is that the fill valve shuts off by simply pushing a soft sealing face, against an inlet orifice. There is no rotation of the sealing face to remove any build up, like there is with a tap washer.

[Jethro_uk]

We don't have limescale.

[John Rumm]

Historically that was perhaps more true, buy many current designs use a flap valve flush mechanism.

[John Rumm]

IIRC there may have been a water related "bylaw" that required the overflow to not go down the pan - it was aimed at water conservation since it made it harder to simply ignore.

[NY]

I can understand that. At least with an outside overflow there is a chance that the dripping/cascading water will be see, whereas draining into the pan would almost certainly not be apparent - unless it happened so much that it left limescale traces ;-)

How about the flap valve versus siphon? Was that because at the time flap valves were more likely to leak and hence waste water, whereas the only way a siphon cistern can waste water is if the ball valve leaks, which can happen equally well for a flap cistern. So siphon removes one of the two failure modes. Interesting that UK went one way and US went the other - until fairly recently.

[Jethro_uk]

I always thought the siphonic flush was a clever design - totally removing the reliance on a valve to prevent leakage. However doesn't the siphonic action ultimately require a head of pressure to be effective ? Either that or far more water than a flap valve ?

I recently noticed a discussion on a popular parenting forum about low- flush toilets requiring two flushes (and therefore negating any water savings). As is typical on that forum (there is a sexist observation) the one question about whether cisterns and pans were matched was ignored :) From observation and my experiences when I fitted my concealed cistern/ flap flush you need both to be effective. I suspect there are a lot of bodgeit merchants out there who only fit the cistern to a standard pan before disappearing with the cash ....

[Jethro_uk]

After it happening again, I removed the entire unit which had a covering of black slime, dissembled it, and refitted. All seems OK now.

On inspection it's a pretty neat design. Only metal is one tiny stainless steel pin which seems to operate one valve (which if available as a replacement would be £1.00 for ten). Plus an odd arrangement above of what seems like another valve ? But the whole thing simply unclips for cleaning and repair.

(Inevitably, given my luck with plumbing, on refitting the connection between the water in and valve started weeping :) )

[Bob Eager]

I've seen installations (mainly places such as public loos where bodges seem to be common) where the overflow pipe has been partially flattened and then led over the edge of the bowl (the 'feet' on the loo seat keeping it clear). Overflow is pretty obvious there.

Also (I think in a nearby motorway service area) an overflow that disappears into the wall via a solid looking 'sight glass'.

[Terry Casey]

Which? They are different plugs!

The French/Belgian socket:

or is circular and has an earth pin wheras the German Schuko socket:

or has side earthing contacts and keyways to guide the plug.

The plug shown in both pictures is a modified Schuko which has an added earth socket to accept the pin of the French socket but an unmodified Schuko won't fit a French socket any more than a stansard French plug will fit a Schuko socket.

The next time I'm in a French or Belgian supermarket I must remember to look and see if common sense has prevailed and 2 pin plugs now have a hole for the pin!

The strange thing is thaere is nothing to prevent an eathed appliance being plugged into a 2 pin socket!

In fact, when three pin sockets were first introduced in France, no existing 2 pin plugs would fit them!

If lou look here:

you'll see that there are different types used in other European contries such as Switzerland, Italy and Denmark.

In Europe, a standard light bulb is E27 (27 mm diameter) wheras in the US they are E26 although it is alleged that most lampholders will accomodate both.

[Steve Walker]

All the 2-pin plugs I have used there have been moulded on and narrow enough that they miss the earth pin completely, except for ones that I have wired myself, where I just used a 3-pin plug anyway - as the house only has 3-pin sockets (none of those 2-pin ones fed from the lighting circuit.

SteveW

[Terry Casey]

Yes, that will be the Europlug which has a maximimum rating of

2.5A. For higher consumption, up to 16A, you need either a modified Schuko or a French plug like this:

or

with which you are obviously familiar.