Smart Meter Snoopers

[Jethro_uk]

As predicted :

The smart meter snoopers already in homes tracking our energy habits

20 firms to share £20m to develop products to work alongside smart meters One firm has boasted of being able to 'monetize' personalized consumer data EDF is working with UK firm Onzo to link smart meters to Amazon Alexa devices

Tens of thousands of families are being tracked in a multi-million-pound government scheme to let tech firms access their smart meter data.

At least 20 companies are being given a share of £20million to develop products that can be used alongside smart meters.

Those involved say the aim is to help households make further energy savings ? but one of the firms entrusted with taxpayers' money has previously boasted of being able to 'monetize' highly personalized consumer data.

The same company is currently working with Amazon to enable customers to ask its virtual assistant Alexa how much power they have used and when.

Privacy concerns: At least 20 companies are being given a share of £20million to develop products that can be used alongside smart meters to monitor household energy usage

The Government wants all UK homes to have a smart meter to monitor power usage by 2024, but the bodged rollout is set to cost at least £13billion.

It is running three trials to develop technology that analyses smart meter data.

Tech firms team up with energy suppliers to bid for funds after getting consent from customers.

While the scheme is not yet commercial, the firms hope to sell their products to the wider public once trials are completed.

EDF Energy is working with British analytics company Onzo to link smart meters to Amazon's Alexa devices in 6,000 UK households.

Earlier this year, it was revealed Amazon employees regularly listen to Alexa recordings to help develop new services.

EDF insists customers' consent is sought by email and Amazon cannot access the data itself.

It claims that the primary purpose of the technology is to cut households' bills by allowing customers to ask Alexa questions such as: 'What is my energy breakdown?'

But a video by Onzo says the firm can 'monetize' smart meter data by offering it to third parties. It boasts it can use the data to 'build a highly personalized profile' that allows utility companies to execute 'highly targeted sales campaigns'.

The video has been removed from the company's website, but is still available on YouTube.

Onzo says it was fully compliant with the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), which came into force last year.

EDF Energy is working with British analytics company Onzo to link smart meters to Amazon's Alexa devices in 6,000 UK households

Chief executive Steven Daniels says the video was taken down because it no longer reflected the company's approach. He adds: 'We never receive any personal information about consumers. The data is never shared with third parties and is never shared with Amazon.'

But consumer expert Martyn James questions whether the firms involved can be trusted to act responsibly.

'Companies such as Amazon have shown time and again that they can't be trusted with our private data,' he says. 'We need to step in with laws before it's too late.'

There are also concerns over whether vulnerable people have a genuine choice in the matter.

One firm has developed smart meter technology that allows landlords to monitor the efficiency of heating appliances in tenants' homes, as well as identifying mould and damp.

Switchee, the UK energy firm behind the project, says consent is sought from the tenant.

Meanwhile, another firm has created a product that allows bosses to keep tabs on staff without their consent. In one instance, a bakery boss could tell that an employee hadn't turned up for work because an oven wasn't on when it should have been.

Valerie Lynch, chief executive of UK consultancy AND Technology Research, says it is only the bill payer who needs to consent to the data being shared.

She adds that the bill payer is 'the only person who sees the data' and it is fully compliant with GDPR.

But Silkie Carlo, director of civil liberties campaign group Big Brother Watch, says: 'The idea we should consent to such data surveillance for commercial benefits puts a price on the privacy of our homes.'

One of the firms involved estimated that at least 10,000 households were taking part in one of the three government trials, with the overall figure likely to be much higher.

In return for the funding, the Government is able to collate data from the projects to use for its market research into the smart meter rollout.

Robert Cheesewright, director of corporate affairs at Smart Energy GB, says: 'You will always be asked to consent to share any information wider than with your energy supplier.

'If you do not want to share your meter readings and energy patterns, you don't have to do so.'

A spokesperson for the Government's Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy says: 'Smart meters will help households and small businesses cut their bills, but customers can be assured strict regulations are in place to give households firm control and peace of mind over who has access to their data.'

Amazon declined to comment.

[tim...]

This'll be the smart meter that's too far from my property for me to be able to remotely read [1], will it?

How can I take advantage of all these goodies that are being offered please?

Can I obtain some compensation for being discriminated against in this new world order?

etc

How can it possibly do that?

How do you know that any variation in usage isn't just because person A likes their house warmer than person B?

I fail to see any reason why an employee should have to consent to being "checked up on" that they have in fact turned up for work or not.

tim

[1] I will find out on Monday if that is, as I suspect, the case

[Brian Gaff]

And that is a bad thing then? Brian

[Brian Gaff]

Yes give me alexa access tomorrow and then these elusive talking terminals which edf say do not exist but in fact do, would be irrelevant, and nobody can force you to change your habits but maybe just maybe better tariffs geared to a persons usage would be provided. Brian

[alan_m]

Surely not. The adverts for smart meters tell us part of their use is to make planning for future energy demands easier and to make the existing grid more efficient. Both would be more better achieved by monitoring at a sub station level rather than monitoring everyone and then getting an average or trend.

[Brian Reay]

The theory (which I am not defending) seems to be that by giving instant / detailed information people will reduce consumption.

I rather suspect people will soon adjust to the idea and revert to a comfortable usage pattern - no longer dial watching etc, and any long term change in energy usage will be minimal.

After all, when gas/electricity prices increase we don?t see huge long term reductions in usage patterns. After all, people think in terms of cost regardless of what the Smart Meter actually displays or the propaganda behind them.

[Jeff Layman]

Maybe that would be true if they are short of money, but otherwise most people are using energy for a reason. You need to read, you turn on the light. You feel cold, you turn on/up the heat. Your clothing needs washing, you turn on the washing machine, etc, etc.

Yes. They will soon stop "dial watching" when they find they don't really care (exception as stated above).

The equivalent of this are petrol/diesel prices. There might be minor temporary reductions in car usage when there is a steep increase, but for many their car journeys are essential. Alternatives are more expensive (e.g.public transport).

[alan_m]

Instant display of usage has been available for electric consumption long before smart meter became commonplace. The power companies were "giving away[1]" clip on sensors and displays. Perhaps people do alter some usage in the first few weeks but afterwards I doubt if many people look at the display at any time.

When smart meters were first advertised claims of substantial savings in bills were made . As more meters were installed and real world figures became available these potential savings were revised down to around £11 per year.

Yep - on average £11 per year

Many people don't even bother to change suppliers to save twenty times that amount.

[1] At no time have the energy companies given anything away. All those usage meters, cheap loft insulation and low energy light bulbs was paid for by you in your energy bills.

[ZakJames]

But with some stuff like the washing machine and the dishwasher you may well be able to have it done when the power costs less.

But may find it handy to see when the brats have a heater on in their room etc.

But may see a useful reduction, even if that isnt huge.

[Jethro_uk]

So smart water and gas meters too then ?

No, thought not.

[Chris J Dixon]

"A smart meter is a type of gas and electricity meter that can digitally send meter readings to your energy supplier for more accurate energy bills. "

Chris

[Brian Reay]

May be in time they will be suggested. The tree huggers just haven?t got to them yet.

Note, I?m not advocating the policy / idea, simply stating what I understand part of it is.

Making water and gas meters smart would be marginally more difficult due to having to provide power to run them. I?m sure solutions could be found but how practical/economic they would be is another matter. My water meter is under my neighbour?s drive and no where new a power source. (Having a water meter has saved me a fortune over the years I?ve lived here.)

[Brian Reay]

?Accurate? in this context isn?t really the correct word. We don?t have a Smart Meter, I don?t want one. I get an Email every few months requesting I send our readings, which I enter on a website. If I don?t enter the readings by the required date (typically if we are away on one of our trips), they company estimates readings. However, I can enter current readings late or simply wait for the next cycle and things come out in the wash, so to speak.

Even if I make an error in a reading it will be corrected the following cycle. I suppose there are minor things you could quibble over- price changes etc.

One of the tree huggers claimed the individual data was used for ?energy planning ? by the companies but that sounds questionable. Planning of overall energy demand based on individual households doesn?t seem sensible.

[charles]

My gas meter is outside the house with no electrical connection. I wonder if they use the flow of gas to keep a bettery charged.

[invalid]

Gas meters have a big battery in them and they don't use much power. Should last ten years or more.

[alan_m]

The planning statement comes from the recent TV adverts for smart meters which in my opinion is somewhat questionable in what is claimed for their usage.

[Jeff Layman]

I had no idea there were battery-powered gas meters, as those at everywhere we've lived have been mechanical ones. But your estimation of battery life seems pretty accurate:

I wonder if anyone has updated that info from 6 - 7 years ago?

[Max Demian]

That can be done with Economy 7, which doesn't require a smart meter - in fact I'm not sure that the current smart meters cater for E7. When they do allow for different rates at different times, you probably won't know when its cheap and when its dear, or it will be at peculiar times only revealed by an obscure phone app or website.

Or go back to shirts with detachable collars and cuffs, leave your muddy clothes to dry before brushing them, turn your underpants inside out...

[Max Demian]

Stupid British Gas robots phone me up and ask me for my (gas) meter reading. But they do it /after/ I've received (and paid) the bill; even after they have sent a man round to read it. And when I tried to give them my reading the robot insisted that my meter has 4 digits rather than 5 which it obviously has. Stupid robots.

[Max Demian]

The meters aren't battery powered, except perhaps the prepay ones. The battery powers a short range transmitter which transmits the reading (every 30 minutes I think), to your smart electricity meter, which relays it to your 'supplier' (i.e. bill sender) by cellphone &c. I expect you have to have the same supplier for gas and electricity.