Smag (Rant)

[fred]

Short stay in National Trust property. As usual spotlessly clean, well furnished, well equipped with one exception. The SMEG ‘kettle. If you want a f****d up kettle ask SMEG. An electric kettle is a simple thing. Switch to turn it off and on. Not this one. It had two push buttons, a sliding lever and a row of fairy lights around the base. In theory one button turned it on and the sliding lever set the desired temperature as denoted by the fairy lights lights on the base. It never worked for me. I had to boil a saucepan of water on the induction hob:(another masterpiece of modern design) The second button allegedly maintained the temperature for a set period of time. Never got the opportunity to enjoy that. The induction hob had a mind of its own.Worked occasionally though it was fast to boil the water. The built in oven beneath this hob was obviously designed to be set mid height.This one was beneath the hob so to interpret the 3 knobs required going down on one knee. WTF Streuth. The Panasonic microwave was another delight. With a microwave all I require is a knob ( Yes a knob not a bloody switch) to set the power. Another know to set the timer required and an on/off switch.This has presets for Auto Defrost bread, fish ,and meat.Auto Reheat curry, Chinese, and pasta. And auto cook potatoes, vegetables,and fresh fish. Nothing as simple as what is required. The haptics if this machine were dreadful. All controls were on a flat panel with zero feedback. It was a struggle to get it to cope with a Marks and Spencer ready meal

[Max Demian]

All I want on a microwave is a timer knob, as I always set it to full power. Microwaves aren't good at defrosting as they don't heat frozen water, only liquid water and fat and a few other things.

I don't need an on/off switch as opening the door stops it temporarily; the timer can be turned back to zero to switch it off completely.

[nib]

But they do seem to be actually work at defrosting! Little bursts of power that heat any water or whatever there is and then allowing time for that heat to spread by conduction. No?

nib

[wrights...]

People who don't like microwave ovens haven't learnt to use them properly. They still think in terms of conventional ovens. I have two Panasonic inverter microwaves and I do most of my cooking in them. They are excellent.

Bill

[RJH]

Indeed - I've got a near top of range Pansonic combi because I wanted the oven/grill. There is quite a difference in the interface and general build compared with their cheaper models though - the pricier ones are much better. As you'd hope/expect.

Add an air fryer and bread maker and that's about it for me - haven't used the conventional oven in several months.

[alan_m]

+1 Panasonic micro/conventional combination here and there is a learning curve to get things right. Get the cooking ratio between microwave and conventional wrong and you could end up with something inedible :)

I have some sympathy with the with the OP in that if you have never encountered the (different) user interface before it's often not intuitive about the way to drive it. My previous combination micro/grill/conventional oven did have a big rotary knob to set the time BUT the same knob also set the microwave power and the conventional oven temperature. OK if it's your own appliance and you have first glanced at the manual but going to,say, a holiday let and seeing it for the first time you may not stand a chance, even with a bit of trail and error.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I think you would be surprised what and how they heat. Its not conductivity, its dielectric losses However the fact that you use fiull power is why you get poor defrosting. You have a to heat a bit and then let the heat conduct into the icy bits

[Robin]

Not true for those of us (see also Bill Wright's post & replies to it) who have embraced inverter technology.

[Max Demian]

I'm sufficiently organised to transfer things from the freezer section to the fridge section the day before.

Apart from things that defrost in half an hour or so, like bread slices or chapattis.

[Tim+]

But that’s new fangled stuff. No sign of any inverters in our 40 year old microwave. ;-)

Tim

[Brian Gaff]

I don't know about the Kettle. I think one who designs a kettle that needs sight is bonkers. The kettle you mention would be of no use to a blind person, and it sounds like its of little use to a sighted one either. Get a cheap MOrphy Richards one as they work. Microwaves, yes, I use a talking one, MY original was jus allowing simple settings by a set of buttons that were nice and big, but the new one, which I might add is less efficient at heating evenly, has more settings and hence smaller buttons. Its usable, but buzzes even when on standby. You can now get talking combination ovens and grills with so many buttons its bewildering, and talking hobs of the induction kind. The wrong oven seems to have been fitted in the place you stayed, there are many different panel designs and you should fit the one that is for the situation the oven its in. I bet it has been retrofitted cos the original busted. If you only need bait of boiling water, do it in a plastic jug in the microwave but remember that it can explode when the surface tension is broken. I think you can get floats that stop this. Brian

[Chris Green]

What difference does that make? The inverter is (as far as I'm aware) just a better way to power the magnetron that produces the microwave energy. It's still the same old microwave energy that's heating (or not) your frozen food.

[Theo]

In general terms, inverters can modulate the power, whereas transformer systems are on/off.

A traditional microwave run at 30% power is at max power for say 10 seconds and then off for 20 seconds. This can cause overcooking if the item is not able to spread the energy, and low mass foods can go through unwanted heat/cool cycles. An inverter is able to ramp the power down so it's actually running all the time at 30% output.

This is good for things like milky sauces: a 10 second blast can be enough to boil hot milk over, whereas a low continuous power keeps it simmering.

(don't know the specifics for microwaves, but I guess the inverter scales the power by presenting a lower voltage to the magnetron than a transformer would?)

Theo

[Robin]

Kettles with temperature settings are ideal for those who like to make some hot drinks with less than boiling water - as is quite common for coffee, green tea et al. The Bosch kettle I and some others here use has 2 buttons that set the temperature down or up from the default boiling. They beep to give audible feedback.

And if the early EU Ecodesign group had had their way you'd probably be us> I don't know about the Kettle. I think one who designs a kettle that needs

[The Natural Philosopher]

Christ on a bike, when it boils it switches off. It cools. The water is not boiling after 5 seconds

So f*ck the UK.

Normal EU reaction.

[Robin]

Then pray tell from your divine wisdom how long after it switches off will 500ml of water in my double walled Bosch kettle be at 80 degrees?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Anyone who makes tea at 80°C doesn't deserve an answer, and that is of course a straw man,anyway. You said 'not boiling' not '80°C'.

[Robin]

My actual words were "less than boiling water - as is quite common for coffee, green tea et al". If you don't know what temperatures are widely used for coffee, green tea et al you could have just asked.

[The Natural Philosopher]

In my world, temperatures normally used for all of them are boiling or a shade less after its been poured into a cup.

I take it you preheat the cup to 80°C too? And it is fully insulated to prevent heat loss?

And of course...from a despriotion of an Espresso machine.

"Water at temperature of 200 °F and at a pressure of 9 bars forced the

6-7 grams dose of ground coffee for a period of 25 to 30 seconds. The average steam in a espresso machine is 86 °C to 95 °C."

gives the lie to you that temperatures of 80°C are *ever* used for coffee.

95°C to 98°C is the correct and normal temperature for black tea.

Only some elevated little finger snoflakes consider that green teas should be cooler.

[RJH]

Chaos theory in Panasonics, apparently: